When to start experimenting with different developers?

I mixed up my first batch of XTOL in October and have been using it replenished for probably around a dozen films. I'm getting pretty consistent results, but I just moved so now I have to dial in development times for the new room temperature of where my darkroom is set up.

My question is: When to start experimenting with other developers?

Someone from this site gave me some Formulary Wimberley WD2D+ Pyro Developer and it looks pretty cool.

I obviously want to keep using my XTOL, just wanted to know how people decide when to start mixing in other developers into their workflow.

How do you choose Rodinal vs XTOL or D76 vs Pyro for a certain film? Or do you just stick with one developer and use that for everything?

I think I will continue to use replenished XTOL exclusively until I really feel like I know the developer well. But, I'll admit, the sheer number of developers available (especially unique ones like pyro) has hit me with developer acquisition syndrome.

i don't change developers very often, i find it to be counter productive.
some people change developers like they change their socks
no clue why, but im guessing their film is not consistent...
the trick is to have consistent film.

goodluck sam !
john
ps NICE INSTAFEED !

I also used my original developer (ID-11) for more than a year to learn how to get the results I wanted and to experiment with exposure and developing time. I changed to Perceptol recently because I wanted to see how it changed the grain and tonality so now I can compare it reliably with the steady results from ID-11. Some effects are quite subtle so it is an advantage when you have material to compare.

saman13 said:

I mixed up my first batch of XTOL in October and have been using it replenished for probably around a dozen films. I'm getting pretty consistent results, but I just moved so now I have to dial in development times for the new room temperature of where my darkroom is set up.

My question is: When to start experimenting with other developers?

Someone from this site gave me some Formulary Wimberley WD2D+ Pyro Developer and it looks pretty cool.

I obviously want to keep using my XTOL, just wanted to know how people decide when to start mixing in other developers into their workflow.

How do you choose Rodinal vs XTOL or D76 vs Pyro for a certain film? Or do you just stick with one developer and use that for everything?

I think I will continue to use replenished XTOL exclusively until I really feel like I know the developer well. But, I'll admit, the sheer number of developers available (especially unique ones like pyro) has hit me with developer acquisition syndrome.

Click to expand...

Tis is suppose to be funds, start to experiment whenever you feel like it but, it has advantages to stick to one developer and eventually know it inside out.

Agree with John. The only film developer I have used besides D-76 is Technidol, and that was only for Tech Pan for less than 5 rolls of film in 40 years of film photography.

Standardization has the advantage of producing consistent results. There have been comments on this and other fora over the years, that there is no silver bullet (camera, lens, film, developer, etc.). Good results nearly always comes down to the basics of skillful camera operation and accurate processing, plus creative instinct and execution.

Experimentation can be done at any time. There is no right, wrong or optimum time to do it.

Ambient room temperature shouldn't have any effect on your chemistry assuming you get it to the right temperature before use. While you try out other chemistry you might also want to try stabilizing your liquid temperatures, too. If you ever go color this will be important because I'm pretty sure that your room temperature isn't 100 deg F.

To get some very general idea of what qualities different developers have you can look at places like flickr and search on film and developer combinations. Once you find a range of images that you really like you can head down that path and see if you like it for your own shots. If you spend enough time at that you'll start to see which combinations are popular and which get panned by most people, which may save some time by avoiding unpopular combinations.

In any case, enjoy!

jnanian said:

i don't change developers very often, i find it to be counter productive.
some people change developers like they change their socks
no clue why, but im guessing their film is not consistent...
the trick is to have consistent film.

goodluck sam !
john
ps NICE INSTAFEED !

Click to expand...

+1000

I/m with John if your current developer has been giving yo the results you like then why change. I haven't changed developers in 15 years. Consistent negatives is the goal.

Kawaiithulhu said:

Ambient room temperature shouldn't have any effect on your chemistry assuming you get it to the right temperature before use. While you try out other chemistry you might also want to try stabilizing your liquid temperatures, too. If you ever go color this will be important because I'm pretty sure that your room temperature isn't 100 deg F.

Click to expand...

I'm using replenished XTOL, so the chemistry temperature is whatever room temperature is. It was around 73-74 before, now it is probably closer to 75-76. I'll need to do some experimentation to find the right times and agitation for the new temp. But, that's part of the fun. I also want to test out my new Busch so two birds one stone.

Remember the time when I knew nothing about the different developers and listening to experienced photographers recommending every developer under the sun. Spent fair amount of money trying different types. Realized it gave me a lot of first hand knowledge about the different kinds of developers available and also what worked for me (powder mixing, liquid,etc...). It was a vauble lesson.

saman13 said:

I'm using replenished XTOL, so the chemistry temperature is whatever room temperature is. It was around 73-74 before, now it is probably closer to 75-76. I'll need to do some experimentation to find the right times and agitation for the new temp.

Click to expand...

If you use the same agitation and the calculator in the Kodak Darkroom dataguide, you should be able to avoid the experiments.

jnanian said:

i don't change developers very often, i find it to be counter productive.
some people change developers like they change their socks
no clue why, but im guessing their film is not consistent...
the trick is to have consistent film.

goodluck sam !
john
ps NICE INSTAFEED !

Click to expand...

I agree with John on this. The XTOL information will tell you the time for the temperature. I have been happy with replenished XTOL for a decade. Once I learned about it at APUG and tried it I was hooked on it because it was so much better than the other developers. If you are shooting MF or larger, you may want to try a staining pyro for some thing very different.

I usually start experimenting after three beers or so. I’m a lightweight.

All good advice, y'all. I'll stick with XTOL for the time being.

I have this Pyro developer though, so I'll give it a try at some point. But, as I'm trying out a new film (Foma 100), and a new camera, I'll stick with the developer I know. My darkroom cabinet is getting full anyways.

But do y'all not ever want a different developer for a certain film you use? Like keeping Rodinal in case you want to stand develop a particularly contrasty roll of film. Or, just because a film you like prints well when developed in a developer other than your normal one?

Nodda Duma said:

I usually start experimenting after three beers or so. I’m a lightweight.

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Maybe you could make a developer with beer, like caffenol. Call it, alcoholenol? Not as catchy.

I usually experiment with other developers when I want to demonstrate something, like the additional grain that Dektol produces (inconclusive test)...

saman13 said:

Maybe you could make a developer with beer, like caffenol. Call it, alcoholenol? Not as catchy.

Click to expand...

been looking for the link, can't find it ATM .. there IS someone here on photrio who makes developer from cheep beer..
and it gives pretty good results !

saman13 said:

so now I have to dial in development times for the new room temperature of where my darkroom is set up.

Click to expand...

Sooo... you rely on ambient room temperature as a standard for film development? Possibly different by location, but constant in a given room through the seasons? Good luck. Or maybe buy a thermometer.

My question is: When to start experimenting with other developers?

My advice is to only start to experiment with other developers when your current developer is not giving you the results that you desire.

Bests,

David.
www.dsallen.de

If you're getting results that you are happy with, it's only worthwhile experimenting with other developers if you have reason to believe they might be "better" or be able to do something your current developer doesn't do so well.

I've been a user of ID-11 for over 30 years. It does everything I ask of it. I've tried a few others, especially when at school using the school darkroom when I was beginning, and came back to ID-11. It's easy to use, difficult to mess up, not super critical with timing or temperature and it can get a good image out of any emulsion made in the last 70 years. I've used it on everything from 60 year old glass plates to modern T-grain films. Works wonderfully every time.

The only time I tried experimenting was with Microphen, to see if that was better for push processing than ID-11. I'd shot a bunch of HP5+ at 1600 and some Tri-X at the same speed. If I were looking to try specific techniques or produce more grain...I would perhaps look at different developers. Or if I were not consistently getting satisfying results with ID-11.

If you are happy with your results, then there is no need to experiment (unless you find experimentation to be fun).

I am currently using 2 developers. HC-110 dilution B for most films, and Rodinal 1+50 for Foma/Arista films (Foma does not recommend HC-110). I'd like to try replenished XTOL to use for all films, but my current set-up works best with concentrated liquid developers. Although I have tried developing Foma products with more exotic dilutions of HC-110, I choose to keep it simple and stick to dilution B.

Wallendo said:

If you are happy with your results, then there is no need to experiment (unless you find experimentation to be fun).

I am currently using 2 developers. HC-110 dilution B for most films, and Rodinal 1+50 for Foma/Arista films (Foma does not recommend HC-110). I'd like to try replenished XTOL to use for all films, but my current set-up works best with concentrated liquid developers. Although I have tried developing Foma products with more exotic dilutions of HC-110, I choose to keep it simple and stick to dilution B.

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Foma 100 is what got me thinking about Rodinal. But, of course, I haven’t even tried it with XTOL so I might be perfectly happy with that combination. If I’m not liking it, I’ll try a different developer.

There are at least four reasons to consider experimenting with a new developer when one is happy with one's current developer:
1) cost or availability problems with the current developer;
2) workflow issues - for example if one is using a replenished developer, but needs something that is easy to use at different locations or while travelling;
3) need to accentuate one particular factor over others - for example a high speed developer like T-Max or Microphen for a batch of film which will require full speed and pushed development; and
4) because it is fun sometimes to see how different developers work.
I expect that number 4 is the most important.

Try something new when you need/want to. I used D-76 for years, then tried Rodinal after reading an article about it, and then went thru most of the devs in TDC. This was not because I was unhappy with D-76, but because I wanted to see what other devs could do. I've now settled on Pyrocat HD, Rodinal, Diafine and I always come back to D-76 for some things.

You should follow your instinct and experiment away

As I'm sure you know, each developer already allows some experimentation by changes of development time, which cause changes in contrast. This is documented and very predictable. Being methodical about development time/temperature/agitation control allows predictable results to be obtained. Mixing of warm and cold water and the use of a precision thermometer to make the solutions is the traditional method. Every time you develop you do everything the same, this means that image quality changes due to exposure variables (metering, subject contrast, and shutter accuracy) can be evaluated by comparing frames. Variations of development time/temperature/agitation change the image and this confounds attempts to learn what the film and camera are doing by introducing uncontrolled variables.

Perhaps some study about the qualities of the various developers should precede their use. It seems reasonable to have in mind a specific purpose when making the choice of a variation in developer, perhaps because of unique curve shape, sharpness effect, contrast effect,.......etc......... This might be experimented with by the method of making multiple exposures of the same subject using the same camera and the same film but with two different development regimes, then the results are scrutinized to find whether the wished for result has been achieved. This seems to be a purposeful way of approaching developer experimentation.

Switch developers when you need something your current developer does not give you or the store is out of your preferred developer (no longer a problem with the interwebs). I started with D76, the local store got mad at Kodak so dropped them, and only had ilfosol-s, so I switched. I switched to pyrocat when I needed negs for POP that ilfosol could not give me.

If you are into the chemistry and testing have fun.