When the camera you buy becomes the deciding factor for your ethics rating

Vaughn · Jul 1, 2019

And a madness to his methods...as I prefer to describe my own state-of-mind!

AgX -- a meme I recently saw that hit the spot -- "Service is the rent one pays to occupy space on earth."

DonJ · Jul 1, 2019

David Lyga said:
But they DO know me: my face is imprinted onto everyone's brain at both that store and the Photorama camera shows, twice yearly. I cannot escape; I would be captured and spend the rest of eternity in a Federal lockup. And the reason that this is serious business is because I want to try to woo one of the guards at that lockup. (Then I would not only be captured, but also enraptured.)

So you see, there really is method in David Lyga's madness. - David Lyga

Using a throwaway email address for CL is highly recommended, and not just for situations such as this one. At least 80% of the inquiries I get via CL are scam attempts.

David Lyga · Jul 1, 2019

Try looking for a cheap apartment on CL: 90% are scams. - David Lyga

Dali · Jul 1, 2019

David Lyga said:
Dali, not everything in life can be reduced to a simple mathematical equation, and it takes a certain amount of both maturity and bearing in order to elucidate the correct life equation for one's particular needs and sense of general rectitude. This equation must embody both objective and subjective elements. - David Lyga

And you feel better becuase you discounted $60? Come on! Moral rectitude is cheap these days...

removed account4 · Jul 1, 2019

David Lyga said:
No one seems to want most of what they want to get rid of. For example, they 'throw away' perfectly good electronic flashes.

Hi David, sorry to ask this.
If you had bought a box of their "thrown away flashes" for IDK 20$ and then
cleaned the sconce/reflectors, erasered the contacts, and cleaned them up and made sure they all looked nice-nice and worked
and put them on sale on CL for $40 ... and it was the owner of the store contacted you like he did, would you tell him you bough them from his store
for $20 and you would be happy to sell them back to him for $15 or $10?
I know where you are coming from, you are a regular customer, and a happy regular customer and you wanted to be
the equivalent of "neighborly" just for the sake of being a nice guy, but the scenario with the flashes is exactly the same as with the camera.

In any case glad it all worked out and you are both happy with the results.

Dali · Jul 1, 2019

David Lyga · Jul 2, 2019

jnantz said:
Hi David, sorry to ask this.
If you had bought a box of their "thrown away flashes" for IDK 20$ and then
cleaned the sconce/reflectors, erasered the contacts, and cleaned them up and made sure they all looked nice-nice and worked
and put them on sale on CL for $40 ... and it was the owner of the store contacted you like he did, would you tell him you bough them from his store
for $20 and you would be happy to sell them back to him for $15 or $10?
I know where you are coming from, you are a regular customer, and a happy regular customer and you wanted to be
the equivalent of "neighborly" just for the sake of being a nice guy, but the scenario with the flashes is exactly the same as with the camera.

In any case glad it all worked out and you are both happy with the results.

It all comes down to relationships and a genuine desire to be whole. Of course I had a 'right' not to do this, but I WANTED to do this in 'partial payment' for being pleased with past purchases. When you tip in a restaurant, do you HAVE to tip? - David Lyga

Dali · Jul 2, 2019

I tip in a restaurant because of the indecent wage a waiter receives per hour from his employer ($2.83 minimum cash wage in PA). This is a question of common decency, nothing to do with a personal moral comfort, in fact this is just the opposite. Nothing to compare with your story: Do $60 make a difference in the life of the owner of multiple stores?

DonJ · Jul 2, 2019

David Lyga said:
It all comes down to relationships and a genuine desire to be whole. Of course I had a 'right' not to do this, but I WANTED to do this in 'partial payment' for being pleased with past purchases. When you tip in a restaurant, do you HAVE to tip? - David Lyga

Actually, you've clearly stated that you did this because you wanted to be able to continue to shop at that store and negotiate good prices ("I get whopping discounts on stuff that they want to get rid of."). That's not quite as noble as you're trying to paint it, is it?

And as Dali explained, tipping at a restaurant is absolutely nothing like what you did with the camera.

wahiba · Jul 2, 2019

You paid the price agreed by a willing seller to a willing buyer. End of story. Two points though. Would the buyer have recognised the camera. Secondly I reckon your expertise and time needs to be considered.

removed account4 · Jul 2, 2019

David Lyga said:
It all comes down to relationships and a genuine desire to be whole. Of course I had a 'right' not to do this, but I WANTED to do this in 'partial payment' for being pleased with past purchases. When you tip in a restaurant, do you HAVE to tip? - David Lyga

David
It is the same as a tip? No, I have never tipped shopkeepers, wait staff, yes because they aren't paid minimum wage they don't get benefits and they (and the kitchen staff who they split tips with ) do not make commission on food sales.
If you go back to the store and see the same camera ( you repaired for them ) for sale, for $200, do you think he will sell it to you for $100 because you are such a great customer ? ( and even then they are making 2x what you sold it to them for !)
I'm not sure what any of this has to do with being whole. Rather than sell it back to him for $65 bucks, you should have just given it to him for FREE and said " I wanted to give this to you as a token of my appreciation for being such a great shop for all these years" maybe what you did was the same, IDK. It was still a nice gesture.

As long as you are happy that is all that really matters.
Again, I wish I would run into sellers like you who sell things to me at a deep discount !
J

Skeeterfx20 · Jul 2, 2019

I don't get it either. However if your happy then all is good with life.

David Lyga · Jul 2, 2019

Yes, Skeeter, I am happy with the transaction, but not at all happy with your possessive form used in place of the contractual form: "your" vs "you're.

But, seriously, there seems to be a disquieting and lingering anger with my attempt to get less than I probably could have gotten. Is this action on my part really in need of such dismay and disdain? Skeeter said is best (other than with his erroneous grammatical construction) and that is that. - David Lyga

DonJ · Jul 2, 2019

David Lyga said:
Yes, Skeeter, I am happy with the transaction, but not at all happy with your possessive form used in place of the contractual form: "your" vs "you're.

But, seriously, there seems to be a disquieting and lingering anger with my attempt to get less than I probably could have gotten. Is this action on my part really in need of such dismay and disdain? Skeeter said is best (other than with his erroneous grammatical construction) and that is that. - David Lyga

“Contractional” (since this thread seems to have moved on to language critiques)

Skeeterfx20 · Jul 2, 2019

Nothing wrong with a good grammar lesson. I'm still struggling to learn English.

Theo Sulphate · Jul 2, 2019

jnantz said:
If you go back to the store and see the same camera ( you repaired for them ) for sale, for $200...

Good question. That situation may very well happen since they are in business to make money.

Vaughn · Jul 2, 2019

Dali said:
I tip in a restaurant because of the indecent wage a waiter receives per hour from his employer ($2.83 minimum cash wage in PA). This is a question of common decency, nothing to do with a personal moral comfort, in fact this is just the opposite. Nothing to compare with your story...

Ah, but it does...if one goes to the same nice cafe in a small town or in the area of a city where one lives often, and one does not tip, or tip well, ones relationship to the wait staff will be damaged and one may not be welcomed. And being welcomed is part of a good meal.
I am amazed at the feeling of some here that there is a right or a wrong in this situation. Reminds me for some strange reason of the movie, The Jerk, when Steve Martin suddenily realizes that there is a profit motive behind the canival game he is running! There are other values besides money and profit...and each of us sets our own values.
So it goes...

Theo Sulphate · Jul 2, 2019

Vaughn said:
... ones relationship to the wait staff will be damaged and one may not be welcomed. And being welcomed is part of a good meal.
...

True - and not only for restaurants, which is the point. Also correct in that each person has to decide what is important in the relationship.

I would think many of us on this site support many such businesses, and pay a bit more money, for the sake of good will and community.

MattKing · Jul 3, 2019

Theo Sulphate said:
True - and not only for restaurants, which is the point. Also correct in that each person has to decide what is important in the relationship.

I would think many of us on this site support many such businesses, and pay a bit more money, for the sake of good will and community.

I agree.
My point, however, is that in regards to the this thread, that isn't a question of ethics, but rather of values.

Vaughn · Jul 3, 2019

Theo Sulphate said:
True - and not only for restaurants, which is the point. Also correct in that each person has to decide what is important in the relationship.
I would think many of us on this site support many such businesses, and pay a bit more money, for the sake of good will and community.

Which was also my point. Thank you.

Bill Burk · Jul 3, 2019

Actually I kind of think I would have done what jnantz says.

For example I picked up a very stiff Kodak 35 for 5 bucks, fixed it up and if I were to pass it along, it would be for free. I just like messing with cameras and I got my money’s worth out of it already.

But David, what you did is totally fine, nobody wants fungus... to fix that took guts.

David Lyga · Jul 3, 2019

It is really very easy to remove the element sets from this Yashica. All you do is use a spanner wrench (or in my frugal case, a very sharp set of scissors to engage the spanner slots) and remove the front set, then the rear set. Each set is fully intact so there is no remembering which goes where.

Again, last night I slept well but I am rather dumbfounded with how much 'controversy' such a simple act has generated. - David Lyga

Chan Tran · Jul 3, 2019

David Lyga said:
It is really very easy to remove the element sets from this Yashica. All you do is use a spanner wrench (or in my frugal case, a very sharp set of scissors to engage the spanner slots) and remove the front set, then the rear set. Each set is fully intact so there is no remembering which goes where.

Again, last night I slept well but I am rather dumbfounded with how much 'controversy' such a simple act has generated. - David Lyga

I really respect you David but if I were you I wouldn't sell it for $65. If I think $125 is a fair price so I put it on Craiglist then I would sell it for $125. I see no reason to give discount to a dealer. A dealer doesn't deserve a break as much as a poor starting photographer.

Dali · Jul 3, 2019

Vaughn said:
Ah, but it does...if one goes to the same nice cafe in a small town or in the area of a city where one lives often, and one does not tip, or tip well, ones relationship to the wait staff will be damaged and one may not be welcomed. And being welcomed is part of a good meal.
I am amazed at the feeling of some here that there is a right or a wrong in this situation. Reminds me for some strange reason of the movie, The Jerk, when Steve Martin suddenily realizes that there is a profit motive behind the canival game he is running! There are other values besides money and profit...and each of us sets our own values.
So it goes...

I do not think we understood each other.

If I always tip in the restaurant (that I go often or not), it is not to promote a relationship or hope for a benefit in the future but to try to correct a situation to my mind abnormal. As such, it does not try to favor MY condition but that of the OTHERS. Sorry, this is my socialist education standing out...

What is ironic in your statement is to say that there are other values than money in life (and I agree) but to support a response whose money is the only vector...

AgX · Jul 3, 2019

Chan Tran said:
A dealer doesn't deserve a break as much as a poor starting photographer.

A dealer always buys below the respective retail price level. Still many people, collectors included, sell to dealers, as for them the benefit of doing so is obvious.
Obviously such benefits do not apply on David's case.

When the camera you buy becomes the deciding factor for your ethics rating

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