When the camera you buy becomes the deciding factor for your ethics rating

[BrianShaw]

That’s all that really counts... both of you are in agreement on the deal(s)...and happy with yourselves and each other.

 

[David Lyga]

Thank you Brian, you are always a source of joy for me. But I could never understand why, as early as I get up in the East Coast, you seem already to be awake. Thus, we have the eighth wonder of the world within our midst. - David Lyga

 

[awty]

Ahh, you win some you lose some. Poor form the guy wasnt more appreciated in your efforts.
There's still plenty of good deals out there if you are patient. I picked an F4 at a charity store the other day for $12, thought that was bargain enough and then after I paid her, she said hold on there's a lens that goes with it, a 20mm nikkor AF, my jaw dropped. I was torn between getting a fantastic bargain and my conscience of knowing how much it was really worth. I will make a donation and fix my conscience later, but what a beaut lens.

 

[Chan Tran]

My reading comprehension is getting bad over the years. I didn't quite understand original post well. I thought the Son is selling his father's stuff via Cardinal. Now that I understood that the Son is the one who is the boss at Cardinal. So If I were David I simply sell it to him for $125. That's all. He is making money buying and selling those stuff.

 

[Vaughn]

David, IMO, insecurity also comes out in the form of relentless argueing/needing the last word. Something I deal within myself.

awty -- I felt the same was when I found an original model of a Diana camera for $1.00 at a charity shop -- then when I got to the sales clerk, I was told it was on sale for $0.75. But it was missing the decorative chrome ring around the lens, so I guess that's okay...

Carbon print from that camera -- it works!

 

[RalphLambrecht]

This is a story that has finally been consummated. I had bought a Yashica mat 124g at a 'tent sale' from Cardinal Camera in Lansdale, PA. At the time, the owner's son (who really is the 'owner', as his father suffers from extremely poor eyesight) was NOT present, but a worthy and trusted store clerk showed me the box to rummage through. I selected about 40 items of 'miscellaneous intent' and also a bunch of filters. I was told that this was stuff that they wanted to get rid of. When I was finished selecting, she told me that the used camera guy, Scott, would have to look at what I had picked and possibly remove some items that they might intend to sell for more. (They knew well in advance that I offer to pay very little.) I had no choice but to acquiesce and I did so gracefully (as all my interactions usually are). He removed ten items: I was left with about 30 items plus the filters. I offered $170 and this was accepted. I packed and left. One of the items was a Yashica mat 124g that had fungus in the internal components of the lens plus both the slow shutter speeds and self-timer lagged. When home, I dismantled the lens (I am used to doing this) and fully cleaned everything. I also flushed the shutter and self-timer mechanisms. I spent over one hour doing these things. As a result, the camera ended up in considerably better condition than when it had been purchased.

I put the camera up on CL for $125. I had a few who were interested, but no sale yet. Then, suddenly, I got an email from someone who stated he wanted to buy the camera for the $125. Amazingly and coincidentally, it was the owner's son at Cardinal, Tyler Seelig. Obviously, he did not know that it was 'his' camera he might be repurchasing. Feeling a bit of angst, even a tiny bit of guilt, I emailed him back and told him the entire story. I told him that I had purchased the camera, albeit at a bargain price, but in good faith. The conversation was at least somewhat amiable, but a bit tense. I offered to sell him back the camera for half price of what I was asking for, $65, if he picked it up in Center City, or for $75 if I delivered it to the store in Lansdale (by train). He finally conceded to my bringing it to Lansdale, but for only $65. I reluctantly agreed to this and this morning, Saturday, 30 June, I did just that, making the one hour train trip. The exchange was somewhat amiable, but still a bit tense.

There are those who would say that I offered too much and that a 'deal is a deal'. Others would say that the initial 'sale' was a 'theft' on my part. Of course, I am out looking for bargains: after all, Cardinal's 'tent sale' was purportedly just that. Regardless, does a proprietor not have an obligation to charge appropriately? Does a proprietor have any responsibilities when not present at his store? Not one word of apology came from Cardinal. But, not one word of opprobrium came from Cardinal either. The exchange was done and we are still on speaking terms, however, any future ventures into that store will have to be with Tyler present, because I am no longer going to be subject 'to afterthoughts' about previous sales. We learn through experiences and try to exercise of grace under fire. In a way, I DID take advantage, but did so with all present 'agents' watching me. I have bought much from Cardinal in the past. However, in the future: there are new protocols that have to be in place, first. - David Lyga

I see no wrongdoing on your part. strip yourself of any feelings of guilt and move on.

 

[AgX]

I'm not sure why you lowered your price. I would not have done that. A shop assistants sold you the camera, and had opportunity to remove it from your bunch of stuff you wanted to buy but didn't.

Exactly.
The assistant represented the owner. If the assitant fails it is a problem between those two, nothing of your concern.
Things would be different if you mislead by purpose the assistant (e.g. hiding a sprecios item or accessory).

 

[BradS]

I'm not sure why you lowered your price. I would not have done that. A shop assistants sold you the camera, and had opportunity to remove it from your bunch of stuff you wanted to buy but didn't. It had a screwy shutter, fungus'd lenses &c, you cleaned up the camera, something probably the same camera store repair department would have done for $100 ( or more! ), and then they would have sold it for even more. I am certain they will sell it in their store or ebay or ? for close to $200 ( or more ). I am sorry if this next comment sounds a bit snarky, but I am certain they would love you to buy all their tent sale cameras, fix them up and sell them back at a bargain price ! As for your ethics rating, you did nothing wrong but the shop keeper . was not too "cool"... he had no reason to be "tense" you fixed his camera, and then sold it to him for less than you bought it for and put into it, took the train 1 hour each way .. if it was me, i wouldn't buy from him again unless I had to..and I would have kept the price you originally were going to sell it for.

Exactly what I was thinking. The OP added significant value. The $125 asking price sounds like a bargain for a refreshed 124g

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

David, I like how you think/operate. Good on you!

 

[jim10219]

The two of you came to a compromise in which all parties were willing to accept, and that's as good of a conclusion as any. No reason to worry about it any further.

In the end, you have to ask yourself what the most important part of all of this is. The gear flipping, I mean. Is it the money? Is it the experience? Is it the relationships you make? Is it the knowledge you aquire? Remember why you're doing it, and let that be your guide. Letting yourself get distracted by other people's values is a good way to lose your passion.

 

[awty]

David, IMO, insecurity also comes out in the form of relentless argueing/needing the last word. Something I deal within myself.

awty -- I felt the same was when I found an original model of a Diana camera for $1.00 at a charity shop -- then when I got to the sales clerk, I was told it was on sale for $0.75. But it was missing the decorative chrome ring around the lens, so I guess that's okay...

Carbon print from that camera -- it works!

I should of waited till half price Tuesday, damn my impatience.

 

[removed account4]

David, where are the sellers like you when I need them. "Listed price $500, but for you my friend $100"

 

[blockend]

You charged for your time and expertise, David. There's a difference between a laggy, fungus riddled old camera and one in good working order, and that difference is reflected in the price. Try arguing with a plumber that he used $15 worth of plastic piping available at any merchant, yet charged you $350 to fix the heating boiler. Experience is an expensive commodity.

 

[Bill Burk]

Haaa David, to be perfectly transparent you might have asked how much he paid for it originally and offered the difference (include $60 CLA to you in the calculation) to total $125 which is what he knows the camera is worth.

You performed a CLA for about sixty bucks.

 

[David Lyga]

David, I like how you think/operate. Good on you!

It still comes down to this; it still distills into this: I slept well last night. Life is not a balance sheet. There are deals to be had in the future and I have not obviated that potential. - David Lyga

 

[Dali]

It still comes down to this; it still distills into this: I slept well last night. Life is not a balance sheet. There are deals to be had in the future and I have not obviated that potential. - David Lyga

Don't know why your sleep would be disturbed... Did you kill someone? No. Did you harm someone? No? Did you rob someone? No. Did you frustrate someone? No.

The whole story seems weird to me.

A shop has some items to sell. You select 40 of then and then they remove 10 from your selection because they want to sell them for more. Red flag! Is it a standard practice according to you???

Then you propose a price for the 30 remaining items and they agree on the price you offer ($170).

You go back home, you fix a camera and decide to sell it though Craigslist for $125..

You are contacted by the store's owner, you tell him the whole story (why? Any remorse?) and you discount the price by 50%. Red flag! Where is the logical there? Did they give you a discount when your were willing to pay $170? If this is the kind of "deal" you plan in the future, don't count me in.

Now, looking at the whols story, who is ethical and who is not? Who is logical and who is not?

OK, life is not a balance sheet but it is sometimes good to keep both feel on the ground.

 

[David Lyga]

I get whopping discounts on stuff that they want to get rid of. This is not B&H and, if I was there, I would have surely stood my ground. There will be future benefits to me after making this small concession. No one seems to want most of what they want to get rid of. For example, they 'throw away' perfectly good electronic flashes. Dealing with such stores can sometimes be a bit of a hassle, but, in the end, I will be better off maintaining my good relations.

Dali, not everything in life can be reduced to a simple mathematical equation, and it takes a certain amount of both maturity and bearing in order to elucidate the correct life equation for one's particular needs and sense of general rectitude. This equation must embody both objective and subjective elements. - David Lyga

 

[MattKing]

I get whopping discounts on stuff that they want to get rid of. This is not B&H and, if I was there, I would have surely stood my ground. There will be future benefits to me after making this small concession. No one seems to want most of what they want to get rid of. For example, they 'throw away' perfectly good electronic flashes. Dealing with such stores can sometimes be a bit of a hassle, but, in the end, I will be better off maintaining my good relations.

Dali, not everything in life can be reduced to a simple mathematical equation, and it takes a certain amount of both maturity and bearing in order to elucidate the correct life equation for one's particular needs and sense of general rectitude. This equation must embody both objective and subjective elements. - David Lyga

But David, what you describe here isn't a question of ethics. It is a question of a combination of pragmatism - I'll scratch their back if they scratch mine - plus paying attention to maintaining positive communication in order to foster a continuing relationship.
While giving them a break may make total business sense, and may actually help in maintaining a friendly relationship, there would have been absolutely nothing unethical about not giving them that break.

 

[btaylor]

This is such a weird thread. As long as David is happy with the outcome I am glad to hear it worked out. Seems like everyone learned a little something and no one got hurt.

 

[David Lyga]

I agree with you, Matt, that nothing would have been unethical, but let's let btayor be the arbiter here. For purposes of sanity. Thank you. - David Lyga

 

[nmp]

You are trying to manufacture drama and an ethical dilemma where none exits. Much ado about nothing.

+1.

(As usual you distilled everything in one sentence.)

 

[MattKing]

I agree with you, Matt, that nothing would have been unethical, but let's let btayor be the arbiter here. For purposes of sanity. Thank you. - David Lyga

So would a better title to the thread be: "When-the-camera-you-buy-becomes-the-deciding-factor-for-how-you-feel-about-yourself"?
I'm asking, because I'm particularly interested in the subject of ethics, and how issues of ethics and issues of philosophy sometimes are distinct, and sometimes overlap.
I think, in the situation you describe, you made a choice that was prudent and led you to feel comfortable about the result, because you fostered goodwill with generosity.
I don't think that if you had made another decision you would have been in any way unethical or wrong.

 

[DonJ]

I also would have felt awkward about entering into the transaction with the person whose store I bought it from. But I would have dealt with it by simply not replying to his email. He would never have known who I was (throwaway email address for CL) or that he had previously owned it.

Life is complicated enough without looking for ways to make it worse.

 

[David Lyga]

But they DO know me: my face is imprinted onto everyone's brain at both that store and the Photorama camera shows, twice yearly. I cannot escape; I would be captured and spend the rest of eternity in a Federal lockup. And the reason that this is serious business is because I want to try to woo one of the guards at that lockup. (Then I would not only be captured, but also enraptured.)

So you see, there really is method in David Lyga's madness. - David Lyga

 

[AgX]

I also would have felt awkward about entering into the transaction with the person whose store I bought it from.

I would not had any difficulties with such deal. The price I paid would be known. Capitalist society rules urge an added value just for a re-sale. And the effort and time I spend would have to be considered too.

Aside of this in acquiring photo stuff I follow the rule "sometime you take and sometime you give" and I feel my counterparts feel the same, thus a good relation mostly has been established.