When is time for CLA (Leica)?

[darkosaric]

So,

I have M6 classic since 2010, works perfect. I got it in Berlin Leica shop, but no idea when it was CLA'd, probably never. Question is - should I do preventive CLA, or wait for problem to come?

Thanks,

 

[Billy Axeman]

You have read this thread haven't you?
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/cla-“lifespan”.177527/

You should not wait until the camera fails because when lubricants age (they dry out or get sticky) mechanical parts are wearing down and you run the risk of an extensive repair.

A reputable repair shop in the Netherlands is Kamera-Service:
https://www.kamera-service.info/index.php/en/

They are Leica specialists, but they can do almost anything. I had some Pentax lenses serviced there in the past and they look quite competent. This address was given to me by a camera dealer in Amsterdam where I buy my Pentax and Nikon stuff.

 

[RLangham]

So,

I have M6 classic since 2010, works perfect. I got it in Berlin Leica shop, but no idea when it was CLA'd, probably never. Question is - should I do preventive CLA, or wait for problem to come?

Thanks,

Well, I will say this: CLA is preventive by nature. They wear out more quickly if they don't receive them. And if your M6 runs perfectly (especially at slow speeds) then it probably was CLA'd at some point. It's been at least ten years and probably more.... I would say if you can afford it easily, CLA now while it's still in good shape, and if not start putting money away and do it in the nearish future. For a camera as expensive and useful as an M6 I've heard of people doing a CLA every 4 years but I think every ten or fifteen might be less excessive. A CLA should not cost 200 dollars, so look for a shop with good reputation that charges in the 100-150 range plus shipping and handling.

Remember, that's cheaper than a good condition replacement M6 by at least a factor of three if not a factor of five, and depending on who you get, still much cheaper and certainly a better return on your money than having a worn-out shutter repaired or (shudder) replaced. This is not a golden-age Nikon with non-decaying synthetic lubes, so the rate at which the camera's internal parts wear is determined by whether it is cleaned out completely and relubed every once in a while. Accuracy will be prolonged by professional adjustment with instruments I tend to doubt most of us posess. No more sitting in front of a CRT TV peering through the shutter...

I can't afford to have every camera CLA'd as often as I like but it's a smart investment in your camera's continued lifespan. If I owned an M6 I would make having it CLA'd a top priority in about the fifth year I owned it and ten years thereafter.

 

[NB23]

Preventive cla is not smart. It will cost you a lot of money and you are not sure what will be done.

Camera repairmen, even the best ones, are not saints. When they receive a camera that needs a 0.001ml drop of oil they certainly won’t go through the whole job of cleaning the whole shutter and relubing. Why would they? Because you asked for it?
Don’t be silly.
They will apply the tiny drop and charge you for a full cla. That’s because they know that you won’t notice. And that’s because the camera doesn’t beed a full cla.

They simply know that the camera will gum up in the next decade, and by then, the camera owner will happily pay. Because it’s a Leica and because the internet people all seem to be ok with a 3-500$ cla, which is total nonsense to me.

And let’s be honest: with today’s ultra sporadic film usage, the camera won’t need a cla for quite a long time. It might gum up, but a workout here and there is enough to keep it going.

You will/should send the camera for a CLA only when 1 seconds becomes longer than 2 seconds, and especially when 1/2 second speed becomes 1 second or longer. 1/60th and up should still act within tolerance at that point.

Before that point, your Leica is perfectly fine.

 

[RLangham]

Preventive cla is not smart. It will cost you a lot of money and you are not sure what will be done.

Camera repairmen, even the best ones, are not saints. When they receive a camera that needs a 0.001ml drop of oil they certainly won’t go through the whole job of cleaning the whole shutter and relubing. Why would they? Because you asked for it?
Don’t be silly.
They will apply the tiny drop and charge you for a full cla. That’s because they know that you won’t notice. And that’s because the camera doesn’t beed a full cla.

They simply know that the camera will gum up in the next decade, and by then, the camera owner will happily pay. Because it’s a Leica and because the internet people all seem to be ok with a 3-500$ cla, which is total nonsense to me.

And let’s be honest: with today’s ultra sporadic film usage, the camera won’t need a cla for quite a long time. It might gum up, but a workout here and there is enough to keep it going.

You will/should send the camera for a CLA only when 1 seconds becomes longer than 2 seconds, and especially when 1/2 second speed becomes 1 second or longer. 1/60th and up should still act within tolerance at that point.

Before that point, your Leica is perfectly fine.

I cannot agree. There are some repairmen who have a good reputation and who are willing to do what you request. By the time one second is longer than two seconds, there is very likely mechanical wear that, while it may not necessarily prevent the camera from being lubed and restored to proper functioning, will cut into the lifespan of the camera.

And honestly if you could really afford an M6 and there hasn't been a downturn in your finance (entirely possible) 150 USD for a CLA seems doable. I'm about to pay 80 for an actual repair job by a reputable tech, so... prices don't have to be bad if you get someone who wants to do good business and not con you.

I agree you'd be a fool to pay for a CLA from a certain famous technician who vastly inflates his prices and adds on a bunch of fees. I have reason to believe that that guy doesn't even open some of the cameras he "CLA's," since he charges more for even simple repairs that actually require opening the shutter. If your experience is with guys like that then what you say is true, but only if.

 

[DonW]

"I agree you'd be a fool to pay for a CLA from a certain famous technician who vastly inflates his prices and adds on a bunch of fees" and who pray tell is this individual? I have two leica's that need CLA's and would love to avoid being gouged.

 

[NB23]

They way it goes with Leicas and mechanical cameras is simple: the camera tells you when it needs a cla. The camera decides and it lets you know.

going for preventive heart surgery or preventive cla is not very smart. That’s IMO,

 

[Ariston]

Preventive cla is not smart. It will cost you a lot of money and you are not sure what will be done.

Camera repairmen, even the best ones, are not saints. When they receive a camera that needs a 0.001ml drop of oil they certainly won’t go through the whole job of cleaning the whole shutter and relubing. Why would they? Because you asked for it?
Don’t be silly.
They will apply the tiny drop and charge you for a full cla. That’s because they know that you won’t notice. And that’s because the camera doesn’t beed a full cla.

They simply know that the camera will gum up in the next decade, and by then, the camera owner will happily pay. Because it’s a Leica and because the internet people all seem to be ok with a 3-500$ cla, which is total nonsense to me.

And let’s be honest: with today’s ultra sporadic film usage, the camera won’t need a cla for quite a long time. It might gum up, but a workout here and there is enough to keep it going.

You will/should send the camera for a CLA only when 1 seconds becomes longer than 2 seconds, and especially when 1/2 second speed becomes 1 second or longer. 1/60th and up should still act within tolerance at that point.

Before that point, your Leica is perfectly fine.

I have to agree with NB here. The reason that "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," is an expression is because mistakes or damage is more likely to happen when something is opened up. Even seasoned repairmen make mistakes, are not the only people in their shops, or have a bad day, or can't find the tool they need so they substitute another, etc. There are a lot more things to go wrong in my view.

I don't have a Leica, though, so I don't know how temperamental they are. But I've seen a lot of cameras go decades without issue, so I am not inclined to mess with success.

 

[darkosaric]

The cost of CLA (cheapest that I find in EU is: work and material 275+25 euros, + 32 shipping + 21% tax on top = 400 euros (475$). I paid for M6 1100 euros 10 years ago, so this is not small amount.
For example I purchased M4 couple of months ago in working condition for 299 euros ('as is' from Meister Camera, but works fine).

 

[RLangham]

"I agree you'd be a fool to pay for a CLA from a certain famous technician who vastly inflates his prices and adds on a bunch of fees" and who pray tell is this individual? I have two leica's that need CLA's and would love to avoid being gouged.

Don't worry, he's a specialist in a certain brand and it ain't Leitz.

 

[RLangham]

The cost of CLA (cheapest that I find in EU is: work and material 275+25 euros, + 32 shipping + 21% tax on top = 400 euros (475$). I paid for M6 1100 euros 10 years ago, so this is not small amount.
For example I purchased M4 couple of months ago in working condition for 299 euros ('as is' from Meister Camera, but works fine).

Huh... I think you'd find better luck in America but obviously shipping and customs may make it too much of a hassle.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Well, I will say this: CLA is preventive by nature. They wear out more quickly if they don't receive them. And if your M6 runs perfectly (especially at slow speeds) then it probably was CLA'd at some point. It's been at least ten years and probably more.... I would say if you can afford it easily, CLA now while it's still in good shape, and if not start putting money away and do it in the nearish future. For a camera as expensive and useful as an M6 I've heard of people doing a CLA every 4 years but I think every ten or fifteen might be less excessive. A CLA should not cost 200 dollars, so look for a shop with good reputation that charges in the 100-150 range plus shipping and handling.

Remember, that's cheaper than a good condition replacement M6 by at least a factor of three if not a factor of five, and depending on who you get, still much cheaper and certainly a better return on your money than having a worn-out shutter repaired or (shudder) replaced. This is not a golden-age Nikon with non-decaying synthetic lubes, so the rate at which the camera's internal parts wear is determined by whether it is cleaned out completely and relubed every once in a while. Accuracy will be prolonged by professional adjustment with instruments I tend to doubt most of us posess. No more sitting in front of a CRT TV peering through the shutter...

I can't afford to have every camera CLA'd as often as I like but it's a smart investment in your camera's continued lifespan. If I owned an M6 I would make having it CLA'd a top priority in about the fifth year I owned it and ten years thereafter.

+1

Preventive cla is not smart. It will cost you a lot of money and you are not sure what will be done.

Camera repairmen, even the best ones, are not saints. When they receive a camera that needs a 0.001ml drop of oil they certainly won’t go through the whole job of cleaning the whole shutter and relubing. Why would they? Because you asked for it?
Don’t be silly.
They will apply the tiny drop and charge you for a full cla. That’s because they know that you won’t notice. And that’s because the camera doesn’t beed a full cla.

They simply know that the camera will gum up in the next decade, and by then, the camera owner will happily pay. Because it’s a Leica and because the internet people all seem to be ok with a 3-500$ cla, which is total nonsense to me.

And let’s be honest: with today’s ultra sporadic film usage, the camera won’t need a cla for quite a long time. It might gum up, but a workout here and there is enough to keep it going.

You will/should send the camera for a CLA only when 1 seconds becomes longer than 2 seconds, and especially when 1/2 second speed becomes 1 second or longer. 1/60th and up should still act within tolerance at that point.

Before that point, your Leica is perfectly fine.

-10,000

I cannot agree. There are some repairmen who have a good reputation and who are willing to do what you request. By the time one second is longer than two seconds, there is very likely mechanical wear that, while it may not necessarily prevent the camera from being lubed and restored to proper functioning, will cut into the lifespan of the camera.

And honestly if you could really afford an M6 and there hasn't been a downturn in your finance (entirely possible) 150 USD for a CLA seems doable. I'm about to pay 80 for an actual repair job by a reputable tech, so... prices don't have to be bad if you get someone who wants to do good business and not con you.

I agree you'd be a fool to pay for a CLA from a certain famous technician who vastly inflates his prices and adds on a bunch of fees. I have reason to believe that that guy doesn't even open some of the cameras he "CLA's," since he charges more for even simple repairs that actually require opening the shutter. If your experience is with guys like that then what you say is true, but only if.

+1

As a teenager I had the opportunity to meet with a National Geographic photographer. I learned from him that all the National Geographic cameras are CLAed before each foray. So at times I had my Minolta's CLAed every year [if you do it every year, there is less work to do and it costs less]. Now every few years I take my Hasselblads into Samys' Hasselblad repairman who checks out my cameras and lenses. If there is an adjustment he does it. If there is more work, he will usually do it on the spot, charging me only for what he has to and what is necessary. So my costs are free and may cameras are trouble free.

 

[Billy Axeman]

The cost of CLA (cheapest that I find in EU is: work and material 275+25 euros, + 32 shipping + 21% tax on top = 400 euros (475$). I paid for M6 1100 euros 10 years ago, so this is not small amount.
For example I purchased M4 couple of months ago in working condition for 299 euros ('as is' from Meister Camera, but works fine).

Yep, that are the prices for a full CLA, but after it has been serviced you will like the camera even more and it is good for another 10 years, which is only 40 Euro's a year. Without a CLA the camera is probably a wreck after that period.

 

[RLangham]

Yep, that are the prices for a full CLA, but after it has been serviced you will like the camera even more and it is good for another 10 years, which is only 40 Euro's a year. Without a CLA the camera is probably a wreck after that period.

So what I think the takeaway is is that you shouldn't buy a professional mechanical camera for full price unless you're gonna start putting money away for the eventual CLA in short order.

 

[Sirius Glass]

So what I think the takeaway is is that you shouldn't buy a professional mechanical camera for full price unless you're gonna start putting money away for the eventual CLA in short order.

Someone has to stimulate the economy!

 

[NB23]

And then there are reports that Nikon Fs, F2, F3 as well as various Leicas have gone through many Wars and assignments throughout decades without a single CLA.

Many Nikons (especially) have gone over 250,000 clicks without the need for repair of any kind.

What are we going to say about this?

+1



-10,000



+1

As a teenager I had the opportunity to meet with a National Geographic photographer. I learned from him that all the National Geographic cameras are CLAed before each foray. So at times I had my Minolta's CLAed every year [if you do it every year, there is less work to do and it costs less]. Now every few years I take my Hasselblads into Samys' Hasselblad repairman who checks out my cameras and lenses. If there is an adjustment he does it. If there is more work, he will usually do it on the spot, charging me only for what he has to and what is necessary. So my costs are free and may cameras are trouble free.

 

[darkosaric]

I have two F's, F2 and F3, and many other Nikons, and I don't even think about CLA for those / somehow I trust them. I enjoy equally my Liecas and Nikons, but I trust Nikons more. Only negative side of Nikon is that I cannot mount my Summar, Summitar nor Elmar on them - and those lenses are just marvelous .

 

[Christiaan Phleger]

Ten years on an M6 and working perfectly? Its hardly broken in!
In my opinion you'd be better off saving any money and instead shoot and process 150-200 dollars worth of film. Consider it a 'short term test'. If it fails or you discover any faults or any change from 'working perfectly' then yes it would benefit from a CLA. IF Not, and you thumb cranked thru the 10-20 rolls and find nothing amiss, then you now have the satisfaction of not only the camera working to correct specifications but you will also have the images and experiences from shooting those rolls. Leica's are tough, actually tougher than most people will want to know, and with regular use will last a stupendous amount of time just functioning normally. Use it.

 

[JWMster]

When buying old cameras, I favor having a CLA to set baseline expectations with a trusted, reliable source. There's a case for this with glass as well. Repeat customers often get speedy service at a discount. The boost in confidence in your equipment.... maybe misplaced! ....but at least you "think" you know you can snag the image - if it's there. And that's value added to me. YMMV.

 

[Billy Axeman]

Instead of dismissing the common logic for regular maintenance, only for the sake of saving money, ask Leica what a reasonable service interval is.

 

[RLangham]

And then there are reports that Nikon Fs, F2, F3 as well as various Leicas have gone through many Wars and assignments throughout decades without a single CLA.

Many Nikons (especially) have gone over 250,000 clicks without the need for repair of any kind.

What are we going to say about this?

Nikons don't need it nearly as often. They went above and beyond with components of great quality and, and god I must emphasize this, inorganic lube. That makes a lot of difference. F2's in particular are held up as an exception to most rules about camera maintenance. I would say CLA them once every 70 to 120 years... and most of them are in their early to mid 40's... only about twice my age and I'm used to cameras older than my grandparents.

And yes, I'll say it: Nikon's best is better than the majority of Leica equipment. An F2 is a smarter investment than any rangefinder camera. It can use a far larger variety of lenses, does not need special attachments to accurately focus extremely long tele lenses (though a very cheap focusing screen can help), can meter macro photography thru the lens, top speed of 1/2000... and basically never needs maintenance if treated well.

This does not mean that precisely-made German cameras with organic oils do not need a CLA every ten or maybe every twenty years if you want to push it. Those oils seize up, solidify, flake off and jam up gears. By the time the shutter speeds are getting wonky it is probably too late to save the full lifespan of the camera, whether or not a CLA can restore functionality in the medium-to-short term.

 

[NB23]

Exaaaaactly!

This is why I only use Moebius 9010 oil on my cameras. That synthetic oil will ensure my rolleiflexes and ikoflexes a loooong life and easy shooting, even when I’m out in -20/-30c temps.

I have decided to work on my TLR shutters myself.

Nikons don't need it nearly as often. They went above and beyond with components of great quality and, and god I must emphasize this, inorganic lube. That makes a lot of difference. F2's in particular are held up as an exception to most rules about camera maintenance. I would say CLA them once every 70 to 120 years... and most of them are in their early to mid 40's... only about twice my age and I'm used to cameras older than my grandparents.

And yes, I'll say it: Nikon's best is better than the majority of Leica equipment. An F2 is a smarter investment than any rangefinder camera. It can use a far larger variety of lenses, does not need special attachments to accurately focus extremely long tele lenses (though a very cheap focusing screen can help), can meter macro photography thru the lens, top speed of 1/2000... and basically never needs maintenance if treated well.

This does not mean that precisely-made German cameras with organic oils do not need a CLA every ten or maybe every twenty years if you want to push it. Those oils seize up, solidify, flake off and jam up gears. By the time the shutter speeds are getting wonky it is probably too late to save the full lifespan of the camera, whether or not a CLA can restore functionality in the medium-to-short term.

 

[BradS]

Doing routine maintenance every fifteen or twenty years seems more than adequate...unless you're just abusing the crap out of it on a regular basis. Sure, if something is not working right, send it out otherwise don't get sucked into the crazy Leica pedantry.

 

[Horatio]

For example I purchased M4 couple of months ago in working condition for 299 euros ('as is' from Meister Camera, but works fine).

Any more where yours came from? I can't find an M-body for less than $1000 USD.

 

[darkosaric]

Any more where yours came from? I can't find an M-body for less than $1000 USD.

https://www.meister-camera.com/

Look regularly (both Berlin and Hamburg shops) - from time to time they have really good price, but you need to be fast. I got there my M3 for 699, in great condition. And also I got LTM III with Elmar 5cm f3.5 for 250, sold the body only for more than that (as I like If more).