When is time for CLA (Leica)?

[Sirius Glass]

Thanks for this Folkloric analogy involving a notoriously known shady business (car repair); and mechanics, who are widely accepted as misleading, fraudulent and unscrupulous.

The car repair business has to be the #1 ranked shady business on the planet. And if you ask me, the camera repair business (especially involving Leica) is #2. As someone already said, the Leica pedantry and wannabeism is a very expensive hobby, and the involved repairmen are scrubbing their hands.

First of all go find a good mechanic and stick to him for regular service. I have been using the same mechanic for 35 years.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I was thinking about starting a thread like this a few days ago. I finally took the Leica plunge and purchased a silver Leica M5 from a Japanese Ebay seller. It only arrived last Saturday but it looks and performs nearly brand new. I have 30 days return policy but so far so good.

Good for you! Enjoy it for many many years. ... Now about buying your Hasselblad ... <<insert laugh here>>

 

[Huss]

First of all go find a good mechanic and stick to him for regular service. I have been using the same mechanic for 35 years.

Is your car 35 years old?

 

[Chrismat]

Good for you! Enjoy it for many many years. ... Now about buying your Hasselblad ... <<insert laugh here>>

Stop it! Must resist. I have a Rolleiflex SL66 that Harry Fleenor is tweaking at the moment. I also just took delivery of an Intrepid 4X5 (blue bellows), and a Contax S2. I'm done! But a Hassie...hmmm.

 

[btaylor]

DAG fixed everything. Mechanics are like barbers/dentists/masseuses.. Once you find a good one, stick with them.

Thanks for the tip on M5 service. I have one that is probably due for service and I have heard one of the acknowledged M5 specialists has a spotty reputation of late. Sounds like DAG's the man. Thanks

 

[Huss]

I've always enjoyed Dante Stella's word on the subject: https://www.dantestella.com/technical/cla.html

"My proposal would be that owners stop automatically servicing cameras and, more importantly, stop talking about it. Service carries risk, and if you make it sound like Leicas fall apart spontaneously, you are hurting both the resale value of your own equipment and damaging the brand. By my rough count, about 80% of Leica owners engage in this behavior. Leicas, if treated properly and used consistently, should need servicing about once a generation - not once a year."

 

[Jim Jones]

I bought a new Leica M-4 in 1971 and retired it after almost 40 years of hard service when a switch to digital became desirable. It has never had any kind of servicing, nor needed any. It served two years in Northern Greenland in temperatures as low as -60F and maybe 10% humidity; It has many scars, and the Vulcanite is almost half gone. If I ever go back to using film the Leitz strap ought to be replaced, I have retired two other Leicas, one for a bashed in back and one when a tripod drove it into the ground after a 10 ft. fall.

 

[BradS]

...... a tripod drove it into the ground after a 10 ft. fall.

That's enough to make a guy utter a bad word!

 

[beemermark]

I have a Leica M7 I bought new in 2005 or '06. Working perfectly but one of the rubber bumper pads (protects against strap wear) fell off so I sent it to DAG. DAG is not known for being cheap but he did a CLA for around $200 (and replaced the rubber), When I got the camera back I was amazed. I thought it worked smoothly when I sent it in but I could really tell the difference when I got it back. So, yes. Cleaning, lubricating and adjusting does make a big difference. And a mechanical camera does degrade in 15 years.

 

[reddesert]

I'm told the EU's EPA banned the arsenic or whatever it was they used in making and grinding lenses so that today's glass is lesser quality even if the contemporary process is more refined and controlled and can compensate. I'm no expert... so I don't know whether that statement has as much legs as the fellow in California that I'm quoting. I was referred to him by Zeiss... so I presume he knew his business,

Not really. One can order an incredible variety of high quality optical glasses from suppliers such as Schott and Ohara to this day. There are probably some more restrictions on safety precautions in factories where glasses are ground - a lot of traditional flint glass formulas have lead, for example. And some glasses containing thorium oxide (which is low-level radioactive) mostly stopped being used since the 1970s, but they were replaced by other rare earth glasses containing eg lanthanum oxide that have equal or superior performance and are not radioactive. I don't know of any limitations on polishing compounds that would make things worse; lenses can clearly be polished to a high standard today.

Vintage lens designs have many good qualities (sometimes simpler is better). But it should be based on designs and mojo, not stories about the old-growth glass forest.

 

[BrianShaw]

"My proposal would be that owners stop automatically servicing cameras and, more importantly, stop talking about it. Service carries risk, and if you make it sound like Leicas fall apart spontaneously, you are hurting both the resale value of your own equipment and damaging the brand. By my rough count, about 80% of Leica owners engage in this behavior. Leicas, if treated properly and used consistently, should need servicing about once a generation - not once a year."

... a generation... formally defined as 20 years. If in southern US a generation could change and be as short as 15 years.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Is your car 35 years old?

Oh no, 21 years old and 20 years old. Still youngsters.

 

[Sirius Glass]

"My proposal would be that owners stop automatically servicing cameras and, more importantly, stop talking about it. Service carries risk, and if you make it sound like Leicas fall apart spontaneously, you are hurting both the resale value of your own equipment and damaging the brand. By my rough count, about 80% of Leica owners engage in this behavior. Leicas, if treated properly and used consistently, should need servicing about once a generation - not once a year."

You need to see Michael at Samys Fairfax, he only does work that is needed. You are close enough, get in your car and drive over.

 

[Huss]

You need to see Michael at Samys Fairfax, he only does work that is needed. You are close enough, get in your car and drive over.

I was quoting Dante...

I once had a CLA done by Samys in Fairfax on my M3 SS. After a couple of months the shutter speed dial came completely loose and no longer clicked in place. On the upside they immediately fixed it.

 

[darkosaric]

golden-age Nikon with non-decaying synthetic lubes

What is not clear to me is - why not use synthetic lube on CLA, and then you are good for lifetime, as you are with Nikon F2? I know for example that some use Nikon titanium shutter curtain in Leica M3, and in that way you are free from potential sun burns, and they last longer.

 

[RLangham]

What is not clear to me is - why not use synthetic lube on CLA, and then you are good for lifetime, as you are with Nikon F2? I know for example that some use Nikon titanium shutter curtain in Leica M3, and in that way you are free from potential sun burns, and they last longer.

I think it's also that they went overboard with hard metal gears and cams that don't wear as quickly as the guts on most cameras. And look, it's not as if an F2 stays perfect forever. Mine makes a zipping sound when it cocks sometimes and you have to turn the dial slightly past 2000 for it to fire at 2000 without capping. It has a dirty or broken contact somewhere so that X sync doesn't work, while FP does. Still, it's the best camera I own in terms of professional features and shooting convenience.

But I do think both of the ideas you mention are good ones. People do talk about using synthetic lube in CLA's of old cameras, so I imagine it's very common. I had no idea that a Nikon curtain could be adapted to a Leica. Must be expert work. I will say I doubt that titanium curtains are completely immune to sunburn but I imagine they resist it much better.

 

[Pioneer]

Don't kid yourselves, Nikon cameras fail just like every other camera.

Leica fans drink the Leica koolaid.

Nikon fans drink the Nikon koolaid.

But it is all just koolaid. Nothing made lasts forever no matter who put their brand on the front.

When SHTF the only camera left running will be a Pentax K1000...

 

[RLangham]

Don't kid yourselves, Nikon cameras fail just like every other camera.

Leica fans drink the Leica koolaid.

Nikon fans drink the Nikon koolaid.

But it is all just koolaid. Nothing made lasts forever no matter who put their brand on the front.

When SHTF the only camera left running will be a Pentax K1000...

I know you're joking but I've seen some K1000's with busted shutters and pristine exteriors, signifying mechanical failure from regular use... they're so common that one way I make extra money is finding them in working shape for cheap, replacing the light seals and selling them for a little over 100 USD.

In all seriousness, I'm well aware that anything with moving parts wears out. Nikon pro SLR's from the 60's and 70's just have a reputation for wearing out more slowly than some other cameras of about the same price point, absent CLA's of any kine.

 

[beemermark]

What is not clear to me is - why not use synthetic lube on CLA, and then you are good for lifetime, as you are with Nikon F2? I know for example that some use Nikon titanium shutter curtain in Leica M3, and in that way you are free from potential sun burns, and they last longer.

I think they do, at least for the last 20 or more years. I've had old lenses and a few bodies CLA and a long time ago and they still seem to work perfect. Then again see my comment about my M7. So who knows. I think the best answer is you have a camera you really like and have no plans on selling it then get a CLA when you have a few extra bucks.

 

[Pioneer]

I know you're joking but I've seen some K1000's with busted shutters and pristine exteriors, signifying mechanical failure from regular use... they're so common that one way I make extra money is finding them in working shape for cheap, replacing the light seals and selling them for a little over 100 USD.

In all seriousness, I'm well aware that anything with moving parts wears out. Nikon pro SLR's from the 60's and 70's just have a reputation for wearing out more slowly than some other cameras of about the same price point, absent CLA's of any kine.

You are partially right about the joking. I find it amusing when I read all these wonder stories about specific camera brands and their alleged longevity. I couldn't resist so I made a joking reference to my K1000 which has been reliably capturing photos for me since 1984.

My Mom gave me her Minolta SRT101 two years ago because she knew I enjoy photography. She bought that camera brand new back when I was in Junior High School and when she gave it to me she told me it might need to be cleaned because it had not been serviced since she bought it. I have used it a couple of times recently and it is still working wonderfully. Knowing Mom I doubt it has seen a lot of film go past its shutter so, unless the shutter starts to get unreliable, I'll probably exercise it a bit every year to keep it running.

My point, if there is one, is that most cameras built during the metal, mechanical, manual camera era are perfectly capable of running reliably for very long periods without any attention and it really doesn't matter who built it. If it makes you feel better to send your camera to a reliable repair technician to have it checked out, cleaned and lubricated then by all means do it. If you want to wait until something starts to show problems then don't worry about it. Most of these cameras will be repairable for a very long time assuming that there are repair technicians around that are willing to work on them.

As has already been mentioned, bad light seals and hardening lubricant is probably the main enemy for most of these cameras because it is doubtful that any of them are being used anywhere near as foften as their manufacturer's anticipated.

 

[RLangham]

You are partially right about the joking. I find it amusing when I read all these wonder stories about specific camera brands and their alleged longevity. I couldn't resist so I made a joking reference to my K1000 which has been reliably capturing photos for me since 1984.

My Mom gave me her Minolta SRT101 two years ago because she knew I enjoy photography. She bought that camera brand new back when I was in Junior High School and when she gave it to me she told me it might need to be cleaned because it had not been serviced since she bought it. I have used it a couple of times recently and it is still working wonderfully. Knowing Mom I doubt it has seen a lot of film go past its shutter so, unless the shutter starts to get unreliable, I'll probably exercise it a bit every year to keep it running.

My point, if there is one, is that most cameras built during the metal, mechanical, manual camera era are perfectly capable of running reliably for very long periods without any attention and it really doesn't matter who built it. If it makes you feel better to send your camera to a reliable repair technician to have it checked out, cleaned and lubricated then by all means do it. If you want to wait until something starts to show problems then don't worry about it. Most of these cameras will be repairable for a very long time assuming that there are repair technicians around that are willing to work on them.

As has already been mentioned, bad light seals and hardening lubricant is probably the main enemy for most of these cameras because it is doubtful that any of them are being used anywhere near as foften as their manufacturer's anticipated.

Yes, the srT series is famously reliable. Sometimes the slow speed timer seizes up, but I rarely see an srT with a shutter that won't fire at all. I have a 200 in working condition and I want to upgrade to a 202.

 

[Huss]

I had an F2, perfect external condition, that even Sover Wong could not get it to time correctly at 1/2000 sec.

I've never had that issue on ANY of my Leica Ms....

 

[RLangham]

I had an F2, perfect external condition, that even Sover Wong could not get it to time correctly at 1/2000 sec.

I've never had that issue on ANY of my Leica Ms....

It is a tiny slit moving at great speed. Probably one of the greatest engineering challenges of the F2.

 

[darkosaric]

My Nikon F3 has a problem on top speed, and also one of my LTM had. But on the end of the day, I almost never use faster than 1/500, nor I need it. Sometimes I use tele lens (200mm or 180mm) with 2x converter, then I need faster than 1/500, but then I use F80 or F100 and all is good.

 

[RLangham]

... a generation... formally defined as 20 years. If in southern US a generation could change and be as short as 15 years.

I would be angry if this were not so funny. Just remember that three or four of us down here do have internet... still dialup, of course, but we're on to you!