" Whats happening to our industry "

gr82bart · Jul 6, 2006

roteague said:
I agree with everything you have written here Brian. Give some people a camera and they think they are professionals.

We call'em GWCs - guys with cameras.

Regards, Art.

Lopaka · Jul 6, 2006

roteague said:
Give some people a camera and they think they are professionals.

True, but nothing new. Low-priced, questionable quality competition has always been a feature of the industry - digital has merely added some new flavors to the problem. We had cheap 'mall photographers' 40 years ago. We had 'wedding mills' that hired anyone with a MF camera and a flash to shoot weddings and delivered a cheap album of 5x7 prints for about one-third of what most reliable quality studios charged as their base minimum.

Distilling the gems from the bs on this thread - a number of folks took the time to make very good replies that should be helpful to anyone facing these issues (aside from acquiring the necessary skills!) ranging from understanding the market, to defining what you want to do and sell and marketing it properly. A good website is one of those things in today's environment.

One thing I could add is don't try to compete with the cheapies on price - that's like the neighborhood hardware store trying to compete with Home Depot. You have to offer something that enough people will perceive as being worthwhile coming to you for in order to be able to make a living at it.

FWIW, in my market, most photographers who make a living at it, do not make 'big money'. Most, even among the best, manage to take home less than the average assembly line worker at Ford Motor Co.

Bob

Daniel_OB · Jul 6, 2006

Simon
If you intend to stay in business you better off listen to anyone and judge inside you not outside. And learn to be calm, nice, and pleasant to just anyone even when one is rude to you. Might be wariness for tomorrow make you a little bit nervous, and if you have intention to feed the family from digital imaging on a long run, good luck and you will really need it.

Bjorke, it is not very nice comment from you on Simons pictures. If you think someone is not good to your taste keep it as your do not wave with your thinking on the flag. There are many good photogs out there not knowing to deals with internet, and it is not a fail at all.

Ricardo41 · Jul 6, 2006

Early Riser said:
I think Simon's own work and background best describe what is happening to the photographic industry. He opened a "studio" without any real training as a photographer. He may have spent years shooting as an amateur but to be brutally honest here, his work looks like that of an amateur without any real training or background. And in a nutshell that is what the problem is with "professional" photography nowadays, it's not being done by professionals.

There was a time when the term "photographer" was a professional or occupational title. It didn't just mean anyone with a camera, it was an occupational distinction. One that came with years of experience and training. Over time the term was co-opted by amateur photographers and then by the public in general to be used as the reference by anyone. I have played piano for 35 years, i own a rather nice piano, but I would never ever refer to myself as a pianist or even a piano player, in my mind those are professionals and have earned their title. I'm just someone who plays piano.

Now with the coming of the digital photography age the last perceived distinction of the real photographer, the ability to actually have images "come out" consistently has been rendered moot as modern digital cameras make it very difficult for someone to not get a useable image. With that, everyone on the planet has become a photographer. And that brings you to the standard foundation of business, supply and demand. With the planet flooded with "photographers" why would you ever have to pay much for a photo?

With the flood of "photographers" and the general decline in the appreciation of quality (Wal Mart)and the general lowest common denominating of the world, the general level of photographic quality and ability have declined. Now there are still photographers out there who work at extraordinarily high quality levels, but as a percentage of the general photographer population they are few. Although I would bet their percentage per capita of general population as compared to 40 years ago is still the same. Except 40 years ago they were called photographers and everyone else was not. Now anyone with a digital or even film camera who has shot a wedding for his friends thinks they are "professional photographers".

I agree with what you say here, but I'm not willing just yet to "tar and feather " him. Now, granted, his "online delivery and manners" are lacking, but I do think he's a legitimate photographer, in the sense that he is trying to make a living selling his photography. Granted, he has a lot to learn in terms of setting up a professional shop, in terms of learning to combine an all-film workflow with an all-digital workflow, etc.

Judging from his website, he offers a range of services which seem to be in at least some demand in the community he lives in. He may very well be one of the few photographers around in his community who can fulfill lots of different assignments.

I don't want to go all Oprah Winfrey on the guy, but I do sense, buried in his muddled prose and overuse of question marks, a sincere photographic mind.

Let's not turn this thread into a "bash fest."

ricardo

Early Riser · Jul 6, 2006

Ricardo, I'm not looking to bash anyone, all I did was state my honest opinion of the man's work and ability, and I didn't dwell on him at all. However it was ironic to me that he himself was the answer to the questions he posed. His own confrontational attitude is probably why despite his claim of decades of photographic experience that he's never really developed credible skills. A "sincere photographic mind" continues to learn and improve. His choice of "perfect" as his screen name, and "perfect images" as the name of his business indicate that he has an unrealistically high opinion of himself and his work and feels that no improvement or growth on his part is needed. Afterall how can you improve when you're already "perfect"? I have never met a photographer worth a damn who thought that ANY of his/her photos were perfect. I've never taken a perfect photo and never will. With as much experience as I have I know that I still need to do everything better and still have much to learn.

IMHO I find it a disservice to a community to go out and hang out a shingle and pursue a profession servicing unwary clients, when you are not actually up to a professional level. It is also a disservice to all of those who have made the effort to master their profession.

Ok, now I've bashed him.

roteague · Jul 6, 2006

Ricardo41 said:
I do sense, buried in his muddled prose and overuse of question marks, a sincere photographic mind.

I find it difficult to come to the same conclusion, when here he is condemning digital in any form, but bragging about buying a D70 on another forum. I think he is talking out of both sides of his mouth.

Markok765 · Jul 6, 2006

He is leading 2 lifes or at least forum lifes

blansky · Jul 6, 2006

I'm thinking there were parachute problems.

MIchael

John McCallum · Jul 6, 2006

Careful there's a friend in the FFL.

copake_ham · Jul 6, 2006

blansky said:
I'm thinking there were parachute problems.

MIchael

You mean "perfect" Simon's deployed?

Papa Tango · Jul 7, 2006

Daniel_OB said:
"People shop at Wall Mart, people buy fake Guccis and Louis Vuittons, people pirate software, people steal music, people eat at fast food joints, etc... People today don't care or want or pay for quality. They're sick of quality.

Quality is for the elite. The people want cheap."

Well worth repeating. But I would add: if one want to make living from photography, at first look do your client carry an i-pod along? Make a habit to choose your clients, and if you are good no problem. Three billions of moving two laged creatures do not means the same number of people. This is heavily overpopulated place.

One more think: you have to learn marketing stuff even you deal with film. Art of any business in America is do not talk about money with customer, but kill for money sake. And also have well prepared speech to customer what is advantages of film made prints over digital, advertise wise, and you have an "as" in your hands so use it wisely.

I tried to translate this in Google. No dice. Could someone tell me what this means?

" Whats happening to our industry "

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