" Whats happening to our industry "

[haris]

Quality schmality.

People shop at Wall Mart, people buy fake Guccis and Louis Vuittons, people pirate software, people steal music, people eat at fast food joints, etc... People today don't care or want or pay for quality. They're sick of quality.

Quality is for the elite. The people want cheap.

Regards, Art.

I am sick and tired of thinking like this. This is absolutely not true! For example. I have several documentary DVDs in my wish list to buy. And I want to buy originals. Problems:

First, I can't buy them in my country because here distributers sell only what they know they can sell in large quantites, that is Hollywood blockbusters.

Second. Trying to buy on places like Amazon and simillar, everyone wants credit card paying. Nobody wants to send proforma invoice, get money on theire account, and then send products. I am not using credit card. Why I am not using credit card: Well, there are still countries in which credit cards are not usuall way of paying, there are still people who prefer to deal with real money, and at the end, if we are in democracy, I want it that way and its nobody business.

For me problem is that I don't want pay for quality, problem is that I want to pay, but I can't.

And let me not start discussion about how those brand name products are made in places like Indonesia and like, by underpayed labours, and that 80% of price is not quality/labour/material cost but brand/name paying.

Or for example cost of DVD with 25 or 50 dollars, when we know that studio spent 100 millions dollars for making film, earned in cinema distribution 300 million dollars, and after earning from cinema and other distiribution rights, then to sell DVDs by high prices and make extraprofit. And all cost they have is DVD disc, box for it and shipping cost that is maybe 5 dollars all together they sell that DVD for 25 or 50 or 100 dollars.

Or eating in restaurant in which you pay for dinner 500 dollars and you get food (excluding wine which is additionall 300 dollars per bottle) that is not enough for 1 year old child to fill its stomach. Then come here and for 5 dollars you will eat food enough for 2 days. And quallity made too.

Paying for quality is one thing and being ripped off because of name and "old glory" and just because someone wants to be different and be better of rest of us, one word to show off is another thing. After all, see prices of Leica equipment and tell it is honestly priced...

 

[perfect]

sorry to dissappoint you , but the general feel is "you get what you pay for "

and that is certainly true with photography ??

simon

ps/ £300 gets a load of small jpeg prints in a wedd album

£2,800.00 gets 3x handmade albums , containing 30 pics handprinted in each album & a 36mb pro disk


get real pay for qualitylololololol

Bjorke , i will put what ever text i wish on my sites ??

 

[David H. Bebbington]

"Perfect", I' m sorry to be blunt, but you seem to have started this thread in hopes of having your own views confirmed and have expressed exasperation with anyone who doesn't agree with you. Similarly, your marketing approach seems to be to force your customers to take what you want them to have. This is not how either APUG or the market works! I trust you will recognise that this comment is intended to be helpful!

Regards,

David

 

[perfect]

David H Bebb

i started this thread , to give a example how digi methods & services are damaging my industry .

as for forcing my clients into my services , come on "i beat them up to use me " lol

as for APUG , ISNT IT A FILM DEDICATED SITE ??

SES

 

[perfect]

It seems to me that there is one or two users , here that are not true dedicated film users , but please tel me if iam wrong ?

i work as a professional & unless your a pro , i think there is a lot of digital & a few film users who are not pro , either resentful , or just not interested , because of ther lack of success in the biggest industry on the globe , were only the fittest , best & dedicated survive ?

At the end of the day , pro or not , film wins hands down all day , if you dont think so , what are you doing on this site " maybe here to sneekly learn of photographers like me " , "but then to cause resentment & ill feeling on posts that dont suite you " because you a minority and not true photographers using film ?

simon smith

 

[perfect]

if my feelings prior to this post {last post } and i feel that any member is causing ill feeling on my post , iam going to ask a simple question to that member , about film photography , if it is not immediaetly answered , then dont bother posting on my posts any more .

i am here at APUG , TO TALK , DISCUSS , LEARN & ADVICE ABOUT MY INDUSTRY film photography !

simon edward smith pspa pmai pcwp qwp ...........................

 

[David H. Bebbington]

Dear "Perfect",

If you are interested in knowing who I am, you might like to read this:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
The suggestion that I am an APUG member in order to learn from people like you is the funniest thing I have read on this bulletin board for a long time. Since you are apparently blind and deaf to what anyone else may say, I shall leave you to your fate!

Regards,

David

 

[perfect]

David h bebb

i dont particuly care who you are ? you obviously think your some one ?

iam only interested in weeding out those who are not film users {dedicated }
ses

 

[perfect]

David h bebb

wow , you worked in this business for 2 years & a professionally qualified photographer ? you mean you have joined bipp ??

what are your earned qualifications if any ?

why dont you work in the business any more ?

ooh you wrote for amt photographers mag , must compliment you ?

does having qualifications mean you can , give statement "as you put "

lets get down to the nitty gritty , do you work as a full time pro photographer , or are you just a resentful critic , who dreams of success ???

 

[SeamusARyan]

Hi Simon

having followed this thread and looked at your web sites I am amazed at your response to what in my opinion have only been constructive criticisms.

Just to clarify your point though, the advent of cheap good digital cameras is not to blame for the fall in our business, there have always been people naive enough to offer a service far below it's market value, I should know as I was one and it is a hard lesson to learn. You need to appreciate that there are people out there working exclusively in digital like those working with more traditional methods who make great photos as much as there are people out there working in either method who make crap photos. It's up to you to utilise both your images and marketing abilities to pull in the good paying jobs.

Can I politely suggest you use the spell check facility, please, thanks

good luck to all of us in this declining market

be well and enjoy

Seamus
www.seamusryan.com

 

[perfect]

hi there Seamuss , good valid points & i agree with you

i work with pro digi colleauges & yes they produce some good stuff , but from capturing to producing as to be totally pro for excepatable results , sure you would agree !

as for spell check , i think ppl can understand my language

regards simon

 

[David H. Bebbington]

David h bebb

wow , you worked in this business for 2 years & a professionally qualified photographer ? you mean you have joined bipp ??

what are your earned qualifications if any ?

why dont you work in the business any more ?

ooh you wrote for amt photographers mag , must compliment you ?

does having qualifications mean you can , give statement "as you put "

lets get down to the nitty gritty , do you work as a full time pro photographer , or are you just a resentful critic , who dreams of success ???

"Perfect", you are an entertainment in yourself. If you are going to indulge in childish name-calling, at least read the text properly on which you are basing your "accusations." Assuming you don't know, I will just say that the British Institute of Professional Photography is the main professional photography body in the UK, its distinctions such as Licentiateship, Associateship and Fellowship are earned (in my case, I passed a qualifying examination at the end of a college course). Out of interest, I googled the letters after your name, two seem to relate to organisations which you can join just by paying a subscription, the other two I couldn't find at all!

I don't work full-time in the business any more because my practice as a freelance writer earns much more than I could as a photographer and because run-of-the-mill professional work bores me rigid. When I did work full-time in photography, I didn't do any of the personal art projects which were my real reason for becoming a photographer in the first place.

As you say you don't care who I am (the feeling is mutual), I will not trouble you with any further information and allow you to get back to earning a living!

Regards,

David

 

[argus]

if my feelings prior to this post {last post } and i feel that any member is causing ill feeling on my post , iam going to ask a simple question to that member , about film photography , if it is not immediaetly answered , then dont bother posting on my posts any more .

i am here at APUG , TO TALK , DISCUSS , LEARN & ADVICE ABOUT MY INDUSTRY film photography !

simon edward smith pspa pmai pcwp qwp ...........................

It's not because there's +13.000 members at APUG that all of them will reply to your post. We all have the right to choose what and how we reply.

From what I read here, my first impression was correct: you can't stand anyone that does not agree with you. Please don't get mad with them.

as for spell check , i think ppl can understand my language

Please keep in mind we're not all native English speakers.

G

 

[perfect]

David H bebb.

good dont bother me any more , your a novelist !

as for paying to join a organisation , nothing wrong with that , how ever just for you

4 distinction passes city n guild in photography { L/boro univ }
qualified craftsman professional photographer
winner in Canine portraiture professional compt 2002
professional qualified school photographer

there is more , but for you go away ??

ses

 

[DBP]

It's not because there's +13.000 members at APUG that all of them will reply to your post. We all have the right to choose what and how we reply.

From what I read here, my first impression was correct: you can't stand anyone that does not agree with you. Please don't get mad with them.



Please keep in mind we're not all native English speakers.

G

I am a native speaker of English, or as close to one as an American can claim to be, and I still have trouble following his posts. Many of those here for whom English is a second language write more clearly.

 

[perfect]

DBP, that's correct you are a native speaker of my mother togue , do not bother following my posts then ?

Is that more clearer for you !

lol

ses

 

[perfect]

just for you dbp

TONGUE !

 

[copake_ham]

Copake , i correct my self for last post ?

what do you mean is it usual for pro prom pics , "like i said before , but now the right" way round !

"is it usual for pro wedding pics ? "


i for one do not no were your coming from with this statement ? Here in the UK if you want a professional tradesman you hire one , for professional end results ? " is it not like that were you live ? "

simon E smith .

Simon,

My eyebrows are a bit singed. Perhaps it is a classic example of "two people separated by a common language"?

On this side of The Pond a prom is a year-end dance at a high school for either seniors (the Senior Prom) or junior (kind of a "warm-up" for those one year from graduation).

Back in my youth, while the dress code for these dances was formal - and young women would buy special gowns to wear - most pics were just "snaps" of the young couple taken by mom or dad.

I understand that in some places here the prom events have become much more elaborate etc. and perhaps I'm just "out of touch" and people these days do hire a professional photographer.

But my question to you was an innocent one. Sorry it got your dander up so much.

 

[perfect]

Copake

no worries , except my sincere apologies if i seemed a little sharpe , here in the UK , it is becoming quite a regular service , pro photos for school grads , ppls pets , ect , so it is a good sign that ppl are still willing to pay for the right services ?

cheers simon

 

[bjorke]

Amidst all the noise there is a useful question: what characteristics of a film shoot [or any process) would define it to be of greater value to a customer? I can think of a few possibilities:

• They want to hire someone who is well-established and they are really just buying based on the strength of the photographer's portfolio or name -- they have no interest in process whatsoever
• They want extremely large prints and understand that a view camera is just the thing
• They have seen something in a portfolio that the photographer can somehow convince them is only possible using their particular process -- this works best with particularly stunning images
• They want negatives
• They are Ilford stockholders, or have some other personal interest in film
• They are fans of anachronism (esp good for wet-plate types or Holga users)

Only one of these reasons, as I see it, involves convincing them of anything -- the others involve their readymade desire to have you do the shoot.

So, narrowing it down a bit: what particular characteristics on the shots you use to sell your services are the ones that are truly film-centric? Are they visual? Or verbal? Because if they're verbal it's unlikely that they're worth any sort of price or time premium.

 

[perfect]

Byjork

took you all day to work that out , i am truly amazed , you must be learning ?

lollolololo

simon

 

[John McCallum]

I think Bjorke (note the spelling) took some time out to give a thoughtful answer to what might be a very useful question, despite previously having eyebrows singed as well.

But you answer with sarcasm and flippancy ? lolololololol.

 

[perfect]

John Mc

if hes gonna dish it , he is gonna get it back , especially of me ?

no sarcasim just truth & it hurts

ses

 

[roteague]

Troll

 

[naturephoto1]

Hi Simon,

Please don't take this the wrong way, but you might have better luck participating at APUG if you were not quite so confrontational. You might find people would provide more insightful information, be more responsive, be more open to discussion, and have more respect for your posts.

Just a suggestion.

Rich