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This is all well and good, but sometimes, with a hot issue on APUG, I get up to 20 e-mails and 10 PMs a day asking for help or trying to justify a POV or whatever their issue involves. Many of them involve restarting Kodachrome processing or other types of projects.

Now, sixkings55 just posted that he is leaving APUG because he can't upload an image because it "didn't go to print first". Well, no one needs to print anything first. All of my uploaded images are direct scans. Some of them did go to print, but not all and the prints were not scanned. Another example of "how do I reply". Well, I did as well as I could understand his statement.

PE
 
Because I think it's relevant to what Julie is repeatedly saying but doesn't seem to be heard, I'm going to quote an earlier post of mine:

Thanks for that. I'm pretty sure that much of what I've said in this thread has been ignored. :wink:
 
I wonder why ...?
 
Newer, uniformed members don't know always know which books or articles to turn to for reliable information. We may not know what search terms will yield good results on Google or APUG. And, even if we do come up with search terms, we often get many differing and conflicting perspectives. That's why we turn to a discussion forum where we hope to be able to ask our questions and engage in a dialog with experienced members. The opportunity for dialog is important because it allows us to ask follow up questions and double check for understanding. If experienced members think it's better to encourage us to read and search rather than ask questions, then maybe this forum isn't a place for "newer, uninformed members" at all...

Just because someone suggests a Google search doesn't automatically lock out discussion from others. Normal discussion is good, but I see nothing wrong with suggesting outside sources to get a better background. A Google search or any other search suggestion is just one way to respond, and in some cases may actually be the best response. The archives here are discussion, and I recommend them as well, because the newer members will get the benefit of even more discussion, and possibly from older, more experienced members.
 
sixkings55, can you tell us specifically what has made you decide to leave. I had a quick look at, admittedly, only some of your posts and the replies and it wasn't clear to me what specifically happened to make you decide to leave? I think that PE has cleared up your misunderstanding of the rules forcing you to upload print scans only? Is this the reason for you leaving?

Thanks

pentaxuser
 
Just because someone suggests a Google search doesn't automatically lock out discussion from others. Normal discussion is good, but I see nothing wrong with suggesting outside sources to get a better background. A Google search or any other search suggestion is just one way to respond, and in some cases may actually be the best response. The archives here are discussion, and I recommend them as well, because the newer members will get the benefit of even more discussion, and possibly from older, more experienced members.

It depends on how it's done. Oftentimes it sounds like the responder doesn't want to engage and that they think the question shouldn't even have been asked.

sixkings55, can you tell us specifically what has made you decide to leave. I had a quick look at, admittedly, only some of your posts and the replies and it wasn't clear to me what specifically happened to make you decide to leave?

Obviously, I can't speak for sixkings55 but their reason for leaving may not necessarily have to do with the way they were personally treated. Sixkings55 may have gotten discouraged by the general tone or by specific instances where questions asked by others were met with the kind of nastiness that Peter referred to when he started this thread.
 
Sorry folks it's nothing anybody said. I'm having a moment of depression and self pity. I just feel like I don't belong here, like I showed up and the train already left and all I'm going to be doing is chasing it down the track.
Forgive me.
 
The young users already left because the grumpy users told them to Google the answer.

It's really not useful to rephrase things into a "we versus them" problem. But anyone who believes that there are too many grumpy old men on APUG are certainly free to go elsewhere. There ARE other sites on the web. Perhaps they have a younger readership and some may feel more at home there. But these sites probably have fewer good answers. :smile:
 
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It's really not useful to rephrase things into a "we versus them" problem. But anyone who believes that there are too many grumpy old men on APUG are certainly free to go elsewhere. There ARE other sites on the web. Perhaps they have a younger readership and probably fewer answers. :smile:

Precisely, though perhaps if the answers were delivered with a little less "grump", there wouldn't be an issue. I'm an old fart myself, and happily so. I'd hate to think that my response to a question made a newcomer feel unwelcome.
 
I really think the "grump" thing is being blown out of proportion. It don't see it happening that often. I see far worse personality traits happen here that aren't complained about.
 
In this day and age it is a required skill to know how to do an effective web search. It is not within the purview of APUG to teach these skills. They now teach this is grade school.
 
Everybody has their own reasons to ask something, and others their own reasons/ways of answering (or not answering). I believe no one should stuck on other peoples behavior, wording, actions. If someone wants to refer to source, that's an answer too, at least they read and guided to somewhere. Of course some guidance within the reply (or referral to source) would be preferable to people like me.
I started to follow this forum at 2013, be a member on 2015, become a subscriber recently. I learned a lot, and keep learning. I was not so active in shooting, processing side due to health reasons, but recently getting active again. All this time I see that people in here are very receptive to questions and answering many questions even if I find them like: "why they still keep asking this questions, same question was asked a month ago and answered". Of course some questions are never answered.

What I also see that if people are more active in forum (more posts) they get more answers to their questions (especially for new threads). I am not that active in posting replies, so people might not reply to my threads if I open new one. I can understand the reasons, I saw a lot of people come here, ask a question got an answer (or not get an answer) and left or did not participate longer. Longer members might looking for participation (and seeing the light of participation).

On the asking side I have some other points:

- When we come and ask something it does not mean we did not search or read anything before we come (I am talking for myself). Sometimes I read too many sources (web and books) and I really got confused /disoriented as many source says many different thing in same subject. For me raising any question here is to get answer from people who "actively working/or worked" in the field. The answer from practitioner can explain many things I can't understand from a book or other web sources.
- For me, I still couldn't figure out to use search function of the forum effectively :smile:, that being said I still can find many things searching, I wish I was better in using the search function...
-Again for me and for people which English is not native language, sometimes terms or the way language used in some resources is very difficult to understand. Or I do not even know how to search my question because I do not know which search terms I will use. So sometimes it is normal that people asking "silly" questions, as they do even not know how to start searching, a guiding answer opens a lot of new door in this case.

To conclude, if no one answers my question I will not stop. I will keep searching from other sources and try to experiment myself if I have will and interest on something. If I am not really interested I will leave/forget it eventually. This is not only for this forum or any thread, for anything in life.
 
I was a school teacher for many (many) years. I taught several artistic disciplines and many skills.

I also taught manners.
 
I was a school teacher for many (many) years. I taught several artistic disciplines and many skills.

I also taught manners.

As an aside, it is interesting that you had to teach manners. For my generation it was the parents who taught their children manners.
 
As an aside, it is interesting that you had to teach manners. For my generation it was the parents who taught their children manners.

An interesting aside on your aside, long before people were complaining about "political correctness", there was a different PC in our home - polite and considerate. (that, along with respect and dignity... what ever happened to those two words in the 21st Century?) If you could not be either, you did not get a seat at my mother's table.
 
It's really not useful to rephrase things into a "we versus them" problem. But anyone who believes that there are too many grumpy old men on APUG are certainly free to go elsewhere. There ARE other sites on the web. Perhaps they have a younger readership and some may feel more at home there. But these sites probably have fewer good answers. :smile:

I agree that it isn't helpful to represent this as a "we vs. them problem". You're right to call me out on my statement.
 
An interesting aside on your aside, long before people were complaining about "political correctness", there was a different PC in our home - polite and considerate. (that, along with respect and dignity... what ever happened to those two words in the 21st Century?) If you could not be either, you did not get a seat at my mother's table.

Political correctness is an interesting folly. Like the follies of Victorian English estates it is interesting to look at but a totally useless place to hang your hat. PC assumes that everyone is born with a reservoir of respect. Nothing could be further from the truth. Respect must be earned anew every single day.
 
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Sorry folks it's nothing anybody said. I'm having a moment of depression and self pity. I just feel like I don't belong here, like I showed up and the train already left and all I'm going to be doing is chasing it down the track.
Forgive me.
Well I think and hope that you may be re-considering your decision to leave. Yes we can appear to be dismissive and curmudgeonly at times but what counts is your judgement on how your own responses have been received on balance.

pentaxuser
 
Sixkings55... realize one thing... the APUG track is circular... the train will return... be patient.
 
Sixkings55... realize one thing... the APUG track is circular... the train will return... be patient.
I believe Seans move with the new site is a big indicator that the train is returning. I hope to jump onboard again.
 
I agree with Bob Carnie that Sean's new changes integrating DPUG, APUG and Hybrid will make the site a lot easier. People just need to be patient until it's finished.

I think today's changes will already help, I like the fact that similar threads show when you reply to a question not just when starting a new thread.

Ian
 
There is a addon for "similar threads" that when creating a new thread will auto list similar threads. Would people find this useful or annoying? It could stop a lot of repeats but some may still fall through the cracks. This is what it looks like:

View attachment 176270

That would be a very useful tool. I like it.
 
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