What is this problem (white specks on Ilford FP4+)?

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cdowell

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Hello all -- I just developed a roll of Ilford FP4+ and have the same issue I had with a roll I developed last year. I'm not sure what to call it. Using (one-shot) Ilford Ilfosol S, Kodak Stop Bath, Ilford Rapid Fixer. Developed a roll of T-Max (in T-Max developer) the same day with no issues. Below are screenshots from both rolls. I don't shoot much FP4+ and can't really say if it used to happen as well. Somebody please tell me what I'm doing wrong. Thanks. --Clifton



Screen Shot 2022-09-20 at 1.15.55 PM.png

Screen Shot 2022-09-20 at 1.17.31 PM.png
 

albada

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Looks like a dusty environment. If the film was dried in dusty air, then specks of dust are stuck on the emulsion and will not blow off.
 

Sirius Glass

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Was each chemical completely mixed without floating particulates?
 
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cdowell

cdowell

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Was each chemical completely mixed without floating particulates?

Yes. All of it is liquid to start with. Fixer is fresh.
Looks like a dusty environment. If the film was dried in dusty air, then specks of dust are stuck on the emulsion and will not blow off.

Hope it's not that dusty! I definitely do get dust ( & fibers, cigarette butts, etc) but it stands out more. You can see the hunk of dust in this one (and more subtly, the other pattern, I think).

Screen Shot 2022-09-20 at 3.27.47 PM.png
 

K-G

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I suppose that you have been using a camera for 120-format film. In that case it looks logical according to all the problems that many photographers have had during the last years. The phenomenon is called "mottling" and emerges from some kind of interaction between the film and the backing paper and it has also happened to other manufacturers . It is most likely not your fault but the reasons for the problem are rather complex. I enclose a link to another thread here on PHOTRIO where it is discussed.
If it is NOT 120-format film, then I have no Idea.



Karl-Gustaf
 

Sirius Glass

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I suppose that you have been using a camera for 120-format film. In that case it looks logical according to all the problems that many photographers have had during the last years. The phenomenon is called "mottling" and emerges from some kind of interaction between the film and the backing paper and it has also happened to other manufacturers . It is most likely not your fault but the reasons for the problem are rather complex. I enclose a link to another thread here on PHOTRIO where it is discussed.
If it is NOT 120-format film, then I have no Idea.



Karl-Gustaf

This is not a case of mottling, rather dust on the film perhaps from drying.
 

snusmumriken

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When you say, these are screen shots, what exactly are we looking at? Are they scans of the negatives? Or scans of the prints?

Either way, it strikes me that the pale spots seem slightly fuzzy, suggesting to me dust on something other than the negative
itself, e.g. in the scanner, or in the enlarger/negative carrier. The large dust spot in your post #4 looks distinctly sharper, making my point.

Other suggestions:
- Do you live in a hard water area? Commercial chemicals probably have Calgon incorporated to cater for this, but your rinse water doesn't. Using distilled water for a final rinse after washing can help.
- Another hazard is tiny insoluble particles, often iron. Do you have a filter on your water supply? It is really cheap and easy to fit an under-sink cartridge unit which will remove these particles.
- Do you filter your chemicals before use? It's good practice to filter them both into and out of the bottle. I use the standard Paterson filter funnels. It's amazing how much stuff gets trapped on the filter after a single use of the chemical, when you think it has spent all that time inside the developing tank...
 
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cdowell

cdowell

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I suppose that you have been using a camera for 120-format film. In that case it looks logical according to all the problems that many photographers have had during the last years. The phenomenon is called "mottling" and emerges from some kind of interaction between the film and the backing paper and it has also happened to other manufacturers . It is most likely not your fault but the reasons for the problem are rather complex. I enclose a link to another thread here on PHOTRIO where it is discussed.
If it is NOT 120-format film, then I have no Idea.



Karl-Gustaf

Thank you for the term ‘mottling.’ What I’ve seen looks identical to the example shown on one of the treads. So I’ll assume it’s the film and stop worrying about process. As far as dust (be it on the film, the scanner or wherever), I can’t think why a roll of T-Max developed the same night and drying side-by-side would not have (excessive) dust while the Ilford would. Appreciate all the input.
 
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cdowell

cdowell

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When you say, these are screen shots, what exactly are we looking at? Are they scans of the negatives? Or scans of the prints?

Either way, it strikes me that the pale spots seem slightly fuzzy, suggesting to me dust on something other than the negative
itself, e.g. in the scanner, or in the enlarger/negative carrier. The large dust spot in your post #4 looks distinctly sharper, making my point.

Other suggestions:
- Do you live in a hard water area? Commercial chemicals probably have Calgon incorporated to cater for this, but your rinse water doesn't. Using distilled water for a final rinse after washing can help.
- Another hazard is tiny insoluble particles, often iron. Do you have a filter on your water supply? It is really cheap and easy to fit an under-sink cartridge unit which will remove these particles.
- Do you filter your chemicals before use? It's good practice to filter them both into and out of the bottle. I use the standard Paterson filter funnels. It's amazing how much stuff gets trapped on the filter after a single use of the chemical, when you think it has spent all that time inside the developing tank...

I used to take the trouble to use water from the store rather than tap water, but fell off out if laziness. A filter is a good idea. Thanks.
 

LimeyKeith

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This is a known problem with certain batches of Ilford film which I, and many others, have resolved via the Ilford feedback system. I suggest you contact them asap here:

https://www.ilfordphoto.com/product-feedback

You will probably need the data off the film carton if you still have it and the 4-digit code off the edge of the film. In my experience I ford have been exemplary in the handling of these unfortunate instances.
 
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cdowell

cdowell

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This is a known problem with certain batches of Ilford film which I, and many others, have resolved via the Ilford feedback system. I suggest you contact them asap here:

https://www.ilfordphoto.com/product-feedback

You will probably need the data off the film carton if you still have it and the 4-digit code off the edge of the film. In my experience I ford have been exemplary in the handling of these unfortunate instances.

You are correct, sir! I used the form last night and submitted these same photos. The technical team has already written back, confirmed the issue, and said they were putting replacement film in the mail today. Great company to deal with.
 

Sirius Glass

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You are correct, sir! I used the form last night and submitted these same photos. The technical team has already written back, confirmed the issue, and said they were putting replacement film in the mail today. Great company to deal with.

Problem solved with a positive ending.
 

Dwayne Martin

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I’ve been dealing with precisely this problem for a couple of years now. I use lots of FP4+. It only happens with roll film, not sheet film. Nice to see someone worked out what the problem is. Hopefully Ilford will get it corrected.
 

K-G

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I’ve been dealing with precisely this problem for a couple of years now. I use lots of FP4+. It only happens with roll film, not sheet film. Nice to see someone worked out what the problem is. Hopefully Ilford will get it corrected.
When I got my replacement rolls from Ilford, they wrote that they have taken actions to improve the paper quality. The new rolls that I received worked perfectly without any problems. A good rule in the future is to not use expired or close to expired 120-size films for critical work, independent of film brand. This type of problems have also occurred with Fuji Neopan Acros, but from Fuji there is only silence.

Karl-Gustaf
 

Tom Kershaw

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When I got my replacement rolls from Ilford, they wrote that they have taken actions to improve the paper quality. The new rolls that I received worked perfectly without any problems.
Do these newer rolls have a noticeably different "look and feel" compared to the older stock? I have avoided ILFORD 120 for a while now, having experienced problems with in-date Pan F Plus.
 
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K-G

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Do these newer rolls have a noticeably different "look and feel" compared to the older stock? I have avoided ILFORD 120 for a while now, having experienced problems with in-date Pan F Plus.
I didn't se or feel any difference such as the more glossy look and feeling on Kodak:s backing paper. It is also interesting that when I developed some rolls of both FP4+ and Neopan Acros II almost a year ago, they seemed to have identical backing paper. The only difference were some Japanese ( I think ) signs on the Fuji paper. Most of the rolls, both types, were affected by mottling in various degrees. All these rolls were close to or slightly over expiration date. Just before this occasion I had also developed a remaining roll of Neopan Acros of the old original type without any problem at all. If Fuji have made any improvements to their paper I don't know as it seems impossible to get in contact with them. I have tried myself and also Fotoimpex in Berlin, from where I bought the rolls, but still no answer. Ilford/Harman seem to take the problem seriously so if you stick to fresh rolls I think it will be OK.

Karl-Gustaf
 

John Wiegerink

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I wasn't going to jump into this thread, but I ran a roll of HP5+ through my Hasselblad that had been sitting in my one back for a while. I'm sure the roll was expired, but not long expired. Likewise, I had mottling just like this. I hadn't experienced it before, but will watch out for it from now on. I have no idea what batch number the HP5+ was from.
 
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