What is "Kodak Safety Film"?

Mark Antony · Jul 21, 2008

tim_walls said:
I hope you collected it - 'Nitro Cellulose based Film' is explicitly named as being prohibited for posting in the UK, and "in some cases, the sender may face prosecution."

(Not having a go - just thought it might be an interesting point to ponder lest any other bright spark finds some and decides to sell it on eBay .)

I didn't see it listed-although you may be correct, I also note porn, lottery tickets and after shave can't be posted either.

Yes it was posted, I'm liable for arrest?
Its a fair cop 'guv but society is to blame....

tim_walls · Jul 21, 2008

Mark Antony said:
I didn't see it listed-although you may be correct, I also note porn, lottery tickets and after shave can't be posted either.

Yes it was posted, I'm liable for arrest?
Its a fair cop 'guv but society is to blame....

It's listed under "Flammable solids."

The person who posted it is liable for prosecution, not the person receiving it.

Mark Antony · Jul 21, 2008

tim_walls said:
It's listed under "Flammable solids."

The person who posted it is liable for prosecution, not the person receiving it.

Yep see it, but here's the rub- the person posting it was in the States, so would that count under his law or ours?

As an aside that list is quite restrictive, some photo chemicals and aerosols are banned...

tim_walls · Jul 21, 2008

Mark Antony said:
Yep see it, but here's the rub- the person posting it was in the States, so would that count under his law or ours?

As an aside that list is quite restrictive, some photo chemicals and aerosols are banned...

According to the US Postal service, "Anyone who mails, or causes to be mailed, a nonmailable or improperly packaged hazardous material can be subject to legal penalties (i.e., fines and/or imprisonment), including but not limited to those specified in 18 U.S.C." Again, "nitrocellulose products" are specifically identified, and they are prohibited for both domestic and international mailing.

elekm · Jul 21, 2008

SuzanneR said:
I love the little tidbits you learn here... so, is safety film anything like the Safety Dance!?!

Yes, it's the exact same thing. Safety film is a time portal into the past ... or something like that. Or maybe nothing like that.

railwayman3 · Jul 21, 2008

Mark Antony said:
I bought some exposed but undeveloped nitrate film on ebay last year:
A latent Past

Mark

Your link is very interesting, thanks for posting.

I see that your Agfa/Ansco film was packed as film for "miniature cameras", not as movie film.

So, when were amateur 35mm and roll films changed to use "Safety base"?
I have some post-WW2 (1940s-early50-s) Kodachrome and Agfa 35mm slides - would they be nitrate? ( particularly if the 8mm versions had been acetate in the 30's?)

(Paging Photo-Engineer? )

Clay2 · Jul 21, 2008

One of my gun magazines had an article called "Mary Pickford Shotshells".
A group of duck hunters were stationed in China between WW1 And WW2 and
could not get any gunpowder to reload their shotgun shells. The chopped up some old
nitrate movie-film into flakes and reloaded with it. Worked out well, ha !

/Clay

domaz · Jul 21, 2008

railwayman3 said:
So, when were amateur 35mm and roll films changed to use "Safety base"?
I have some post-WW2 (1940s-early50-s) Kodachrome and Agfa 35mm slides - would they be nitrate? ( particularly if the 8mm versions had been acetate in the 30's?)

I'd really like to know this too as I have some 1940s era 4x5 negatives sitting haphazardly in a box waiting to be scanned..

DKT · Jul 21, 2008

this link might be of interest:

http://www.nps.gov/history/museum/publications/MHI/AppendM.pdf

Clay2 · Jul 21, 2008

Thanks for the link. Its interesting that more early movie theaters using the
nitrate 'silent films' didn't burn down considering that there was a white-hot
electric carbon arc-lamp less than an inch behind the film. Heat resistant
glass like in our slide projectors today ?

/Clay

Photo Engineer · Jul 21, 2008

There was a cooling system and a high speed shutter that fell into place if there was a film jam. The cooler and the speed of the film gave a great deal of protection, but there were a lot of tragic motion picture theater fires caused by nitrate films.

PE

DKT · Jul 21, 2008

I went through a bit of an ordeal a while ago trying to dispose of some nitrate film I had "inherited" through family. after keeping it for years, and printing and even duplicating onto sheet film a big chunk of it, I decided to get rid of the film because I was tired of trying to keep it away from everything I could. It turned into a big dog & pony show for me, because I knew about all the hazards and safe handling and all that. I eventually did get rid of it as hazardous waste more or less, but it wasn't exactly easy. It makes me wonder sometimes what recourse people have, when a material like this is branded as unstable and dangerous, yet you're unable to get rid of it.

Don Wallace · Jul 22, 2008

I work at Library and Archives Canada and my first job there, more than 30 years ago as a summer student, was in the motion picture section, in the nitrate vaults. These vaults were in fact an old munitions storage bunker out on an airforce base. The building had a series of long narrow rooms and film cans were stored only on one side so that if there was a fire, the heat on the wall would not ignite the cans in the next room, or at least so it was hoped.

On the first day, one of older guys who had worked with nitrate for years took us outside for a demonstration on the handling of nitrate film. He took a long piece of nitrate stock and put it in a big drum filled with sand. Man, it lit up like huge torch, way out of proportion to the amount of film. "By the way," he added, " you can't put it out with water. Don't smoke in the building. Ever." It scared the bejeezus out of all the summer students and we walked on eggshells the whole time we were there.

On the positive side, you have not really seen a classic b&w Hollywood film until you have seen a nitrate print projected. It is only then that you understand the source of the phrase "silver screen." They are absolutely luscious and if you know photography, you are particularly impressed (and humbled) by the craft of those cinematographers. As someone else pointed out, a stable nitrate print, with no evidence of deterioration, is quite safe to project with the right equipment.

raucousimages · Jul 22, 2008

It can be chopped up and used as fertilizer. It is basicly the same as modern smokless gun powder and that is how outdated or contaminated gunpowder is disposed of. Just mix it into some mulch and add to the garden and it will quickly break down into a rich nitrogen fertilizer. It is flamable but not toxic waste, but that would be a sad end to old negs.

raucousimages · Jul 22, 2008

Stephen
To answer your question, they made nitro negs because it worked and it was all they had at that time. It was an improvement over glass plates because it could be rolled and did not require cyanide to develope. When the chemical industry developed acatate film base the nitro negs were soon gone. That is why "Safty Film" was such a bit marketing tool. It advertised the new safe film.

Frank Szabo · Jul 22, 2008

Mark Antony said:
I bought some exposed but undeveloped nitrate film on ebay last year:
A latent Past

A friend of mine is a film archivist and informs me to keep it chilled or at least below 40°c
The main problem is that it doesn't need oxygen to burn it's self feeding!
He says it will burn under water!
I'm going to get it preserved in FICA
Mark

I'm not sure about burning under water, but the film is nitrocellulose as many have pointed out - that's a component in single based firearm propellant, usually used for reloading pistol cartridges due to their lesser energy than a double based (nitro cellulose and nitro glycerin) typically used for rifle powders.

I would think that except for the obvious extra precautions taken during handling (static electricity) one would care for this film in a manner similar to one's stash of reloading materials.

Photo Engineer · Jul 22, 2008

Nitrocellulose will burn under water. Watch the film on youtube referenced here on APUG under another thread on nitrocellulose film.

In fact, nothing will extinguish the film once burning is started!

PE

Larry Bullis · Jul 22, 2008

Clay2 said:
... Its interesting that more early movie theaters using the
nitrate 'silent films' didn't burn down considering that there was a white-hot
electric carbon arc-lamp less than an inch behind the film. Heat resistant
glass like in our slide projectors today ?

/Clay

The film "Cinema Paradiso" has a really gorgeous scene where one of those arc lamp projectors catches fire (and of course the theater burned down, major part of the plot). The projectionist warned the apprentice that his attention must never flag. There was a large scissor hanging on the wall. Should the projector ever stop, the immediate necessity would be to cut the film to isolate the fire from the reels. Of course, when it happened, neither was paying attention. The flame traveled around the sprockets, and, like on fuses, to each large reel. The reels, engulfed in flame, dripped melted flaming material on the floor, which then flowed like rivers of flame.

It's a wonderful movie. Must have been some twenty years or so ago, maybe longer.

I used to be able to cite this film in my classes when the topic of nitrate film came up. I'd relate it to how home movie projectors would freeze and dad would try to rescue it before the stalled film would fry, and always fail. When the projector stopped, the destruction of the single frame looks spectacular on the screen. Can't do that anymore. Students, except some of the older ones, have NEVER SEEN a home movie!!! They don't have any concept of what that could be.

Another film where the burning down of a theater was portrayed was one called "the Last Picture Show".

raucousimages · Jul 22, 2008

Just like modern gunpowder, when ignited water will not put it out. As it burns it releases oxygen and fules its self. That is why gun powder does not need an external oxygen source. I wonder how many unexplained house fires were due to negs?

dbottaro · Jul 3, 2022

It's amazing that I just joined this community a day or so ago, did a google search for "Kodak Safety Film" after scanning a very old negative of my grandparents and saw the name of the film on the scan and it brought me to this post.

Just for giggles and reference here is that scan with the Kodak Safety Film logo.

Sirius Glass · Jul 3, 2022

Prior to safety film, there was nitrate film which was inflammable and could be unstable. Others can provide more information, but I never handled any nitrate films so listen to them or fill in the details from the internet. Welcome to ~~APUG~~ Photrio!!

pentaxuser · Jul 3, 2022

This is an interesting thread from the point of view of how many contributors still remain here after 14 years. Only those who were subscribers still remain and most have visited quite or very recently but we have lost nearly all the members, some many years ago

So it would seem that once a subscriber you are here for life or at least what passes for life in terms of continuous subscription but members in this thread at least come and nearly all go

pentaxuser

Kodachromeguy · Jul 3, 2022

Here is a long-unused cinema projection booth in Vicksburg, Mississippi. The cinema was installed in a brick commercial building in the early 1930s, so the film stock would have been nitrate. The trap doors that Photo Engineer (Ron) referred to in an earlier message cover the openings to the booth where the projector shone the film. If a fire broke out on the nitrate film, a lead plug (or maybe wax plug?) on the steel cables melted and the little guillotine-style doors slipped down to seal out fresh air. This is a digital photo from the APS-size Sony R1 camera, which I really liked. The Strand Theatre has been restored and is regularly used. Here are more unrestored pictures:

https://worldofdecay.blogspot.com/2011/04/strand-theatre-vicksburg-mississippi.html

P.S., I have a big box of my dad's nitrate negatives at home, awaiting scanning (the mythological one day....).

laser · Jul 3, 2022

If you want more information on photographicfilm materials and how film is made see:

www.makingKODAKfilm.com

Bob

reddesert · Jul 4, 2022

Even back in 2008, the discussion took a nitrate turn and I'm not sure anyone fully explained that though "Kodak Safety Film" indicates a safe base material (acetate, I don't know if they printed it on polyester), you can look further for the type of film. There was often a number or letter code printed after it, such as Kodak Safety Film 5053 or 5063 (Tmax 400 and Tri-X resp). The Kodak Safety Film edge printing was in use at least into the 1980s and possibly later, long after nitrate film was obsolete.

What is "Kodak Safety Film"?

Mark Antony

tim_walls

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DKT

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Photo Engineer

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What is "Kodak Safety Film"?

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