What happens after ISO 800 is gone?

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hrst

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Ektagraphic,

Look at (there was a url link here which no longer exists) .

I have processed ECN-2 films (16mm) in ECN-2 developer (minus AF-2000). All the necessary components (expect AF-2000) are easily available from many dealers, so you don't have to cross-process in C-41 developer.
 

wblynch

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I read about people that make their own silverplate or daguerreotypes and go out in the woods with cameras so big they fit in the back of the pickup or jeep.

They are making pictures with nearly 200 year old technology.

I remember just 30 years ago when the first asa 400 color films showed up. Though we thought they were too grainy, it seemed like magic technology at the time.

Consider, hundreds of million of people took billions of color photographs on film as slow as asa 25.

As long as there is one color film and one black and white we can make pictures.

After that we can make film!
 

Ektagraphic

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I totally agree with you wblynch but we need to help safe high speed films which I don't think people have been able to make themself yet......
 

Ihmemies

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thanks for the info hrst i enjoyed!
has anyone know where is 35mm fuji 400H in europe?? i couldn't find not even a single roll the other day in any shop here, but after checking european providers there is seems to be out of stock everywhere.
Blame it to the snow??

I had to buy mine recently from South Korea. 400H was sold out everywhere in Europe :confused:
 

naugastyle

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I routinely push b/w 400 to 3200, but my few attempts at pushing color 400 to 1600 and even 800 only to 1600 weren't great. My best results were pushing 100 to 400 (accidentally forgot to change my camera ISO, realized halfway through the roll) but since that was (perhaps obviously) shot in daylight, it looked OK. Grainier than Reala should be at normal exposure, but still very nice compared to the higher-speed pushes. I intend to try both pushing Superia 1600 one stop and trying to get 800 to 3200 with a different method I read about (lowering temp and adding significantly more time), but I'm not optimistic about it. The results never really look pushed to me the way b/w does, I feel like I'm still basically fixing the scan in post.
 
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B&Wpositive

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Even if Fuji 800Z is going away, we still have Portra 800, Superia/Press 800, Max 800, and Superia/Press 1600 for now.

But you can't deny it's happening.
 

hrst

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Yes, and we can also start topic "What happens after ISO 400 is gone?" and "What happens after ISO 100 is gone?" and so on. You can't deny it's happening.

And, in the end, the whole planet Earth will be destroyed. You can't deny that, either.

We will all die!
 

accozzaglia

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Thread read, I will posit another possible arc for anytime after 2015: the ginger but unquestionable emergence of a new generation of entrepreneurial folks.

These people, either adopted film enthusiasts who came of age in digital or long-time film users, will look at the available formulas of and systems for desirable, unique films that were discontinued in the past — either recent or further back.

What they will do is adapt the manufacturing processes for a smaller scale to yield small batches (small, even on an order much lower than the tiny Konica SR-G runs or the Fortia SP ones). This manufacturing will occur exclusively in eastern and/or southern Asia.

Marketing and distribution will be managed exclusively online, and the product or products made by one entrepreneur will be sold exclusively from one place (if and unless third parties are willing to pay a licencing fee to sell in their shop directly). Research & development is largely done and documented in the data sheets for the previously-abandoned formulae, so the bulk of their engineering back-end comes from quality control and the nominal R&D to scale down manufacturing scope.

These entrepreneurs will not get into this venture because of nostalgia or thinking about the little people. They will be in there to exact a profit — not a mega-profit, but simply a profit. Otherwise, they will not bother. As to the film emulsions? That will be left up to determining where the demand is against the dual vectors of formula availability due to patent expiry and complexity of manufacture after re-tailored for smaller, artisan batches.

Per-unit costs for the consumer will be higher. But gone will be the immense frustration of hunting down where to buy supply and processing chemistry. Further, the consumers targeted by this model are those deliberate film photographers who know what they want, who know how their work is affected by the film they use, and enthusiasts who want to go beyond digital imaging. Trust me: a sizable number will look beyond digital.

I do see something like this happening. I cannot say when, but what this describes is nothing new.
 
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B&Wpositive

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Yes, and we can also start topic "What happens after ISO 400 is gone?" and "What happens after ISO 100 is gone?" and so on. You can't deny it's happening.

And, in the end, the whole planet Earth will be destroyed. You can't deny that, either.

We will all die!

I hear that the midwest United States will not be able to grow wheat in 40 years, because of climate changes and water shortages. Destroying the Earth would be taking the easy way out. No one ever got ahead that way.

No, it's a little different in this case. I don't think ISO 400 or ISO 100 have anywhere near as high a chance of going away. Simply, they're less expensive to buy, so more people can afford them. And they keep way better than the higher speeds (800 and 1600).

It looks like 800Z is going away (I just bought a bunch for a major project I'm doing this summer, so no big deal). Portra 800 has increased in price to between $7.50 and $9.50. Superia/Press 1600 is still available for the time being and still around $5 per roll. Same with Superia 800...still made. However, with Fuji stopping the manufacture of 800Z and the price of Portra 800 increasing 30-50%, I have to wonder if enough people will be able to afford it to keep it in production. I know I won't be able to buy much of it, so I'll likely switch back to Superia 800 and 1600. Kodak has no obligation to continue making a fast color neg film if it becomes unprofitable...even if they're the last man standing. Remember the tungsten films? Now that Fuji T64 is going away, there is no mainstream option left. Tungsten film, except for motion picture stocks, is history.

Professional 100, 160, and 400 speed film is much more affordable. Look at prices for Ektar and Portra: they range from $4.50 to $6.00.

I wish I could afford Portra 800, but at $10 per roll, it's not going to be something I can use in mass quantity.

I'm really convinced that the solution here to keep these products in production, is for those of us who do shoot professionally, or shoot rare gigs, or whatever...is to shoot film in addition to or instead of digital on paying jobs whenever practical, and pass the costs on to the client. Unless one is rich, hobby or fine-art shooting isn't likely to be sufficient alone to keep every type of film on today's market avilable for the next decade.

I think the following color films are in the most danger currently (not in any particular order):

Portra 800, Superia 1600, E200, Elitechrome 200, Sensia 400, Sensia 200, Astia 100F, Velvia 100F, EBX-100, HD-400. This assumes of course that 800Z, 160S, and 160C are actually already in the process of being done away with.

I think the following are relatively safe because lots of people always seem to use them: Velvia 50, Velvia 100, Provia 100F, Sensia 100, Provia 400X, E100VS, E100G, Elitechrome 100, Gold 100, Gold 200, Max 400, Max 800, 400H, Portra 400NC, Portra 400VC, Portra 160NC, Portra 160VC, Ektar 100, Superia 100, Superia 200, Superia 400, Superia 800.

Once a few more types are discontinued, I think we'll be safe for a while. I just hope that the one remaining pro 800 speed film is not one of them. The whole point of this thread is to prepare alternate methods in case.
 
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naugastyle

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When did this price change happen?! Wow, that's a crazy hike. And $10.99 on Freestyle! It's still $7.50 on Adorama but of course...unavailable on the website. If I'd seen this post earlier I would've asked about it when I went there today...I was there to buy 800Z but I would've liked some confirmation on the price of Portra.
 

Tim Gray

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In the last 6 months. I ordered some back then for $6.50/roll at B&H. It's a great film. When I get through what I have, I'll order more at the current price.
 

michaelbsc

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... It's all about the size of pool of products to select from....

Bzzzzzt! Boy, you've never had to argue with a bean counter. It's all about the margin, and nothing else.

Granted you're argument is partially correct (probably) because you can expect customers to migrate to another similar product. For example, many folks who cry about 320 will migrate to Tri-X 400 or maybe even TMax 400. Will they complain? Sure, but some will migrate.

But if C-41 800 becomes a money looser without becoming a loss leader on some other product, it doesn't matter if the choices are smaller. It just dies because it doesn't make money.

Now, don't get me wrong. The bean counters aren't "bad" when they intervene. That's their job, to lay out the cold hard facts and shove them into the executives faces. (I am not a bean counter by profession. Nor do I play one on TV. But I've got a cousin and a niece who are bean counters.)

True the executives can overrule them. Look at Kodachrome. That's had to be loosing money for several years, and the executives kept it until the 75th as opposed to say the 73rd. But you can bet there was a platoon if not an army of bean counters inside Kodak pointing out that it was killing them.

Michael
 
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Other than 2 rolls of 3200 in 20 yrs. I never shoot much over 400 asa. I really don't see much use for it. But at the same time. Discontinung any film right really bothers me. Because as film is being discontinued a relacement is not being offered.

I'd agree with you for 35mm photography, especially when using lenses like my beloved Contax Zeiss 55 1.2 or 85 1.2. :D BUT I have recently discovered the pleasure of medium format 6x7 and with much slower maximum apertures, when shooting outside a studio, faster films can be a boon. The quality of the RZ/RB lenses is so high that shooting at f45 or f32 can reveal incredible detail throughout the huge depth of field. I used a lot of Fuji 800 stock just for this purpose and I really miss it in medium format. :sad: Indeed trying to find 400 film in 220 format over here in the UK is getting a lot tougher...
 

pollux

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all I see here is a list of negative sic, responses. people being a right bellend moaning and proclaiming the death of film on an Analog photo group. you are your own worst enemy. infact, some of you sound like co-intel pro from the photography corporations "i predict this will be gone" "oh that will die by 2012" get out and buy it. we know the new world order doesn't care about artistic endevour.
 

hrst

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pollux,

My point exactly!

Positive thinking may not "save film", but at least it will make this forum more enjoyable; not to mention it will make the photography also more enjoyable. This way we are able to buy more film.
 
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B&Wpositive

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all I see here is a list of negative sic, responses. people being a right bellend moaning and proclaiming the death of film on an Analog photo group. you are your own worst enemy. infact, some of you sound like co-intel pro from the photography corporations "i predict this will be gone" "oh that will die by 2012" get out and buy it. we know the new world order doesn't care about artistic endevour.

Someone please tell me where I can get hold of fresh Fujicolor 1600 film. I have a few rolls left, but they are now expired and are thus no longer usable at full ISO rating (EI 1250 is what I normally rate it at when it's fresh, but I rate it at EI 800 when it's expired). I can't find this film for sale anywhere lately.
 

GinaMaree

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Someone please tell me where I can get hold of fresh Fujicolor 1600 film. I have a few rolls left, but they are now expired and are thus no longer usable at full ISO rating (EI 1250 is what I normally rate it at when it's fresh, but I rate it at EI 800 when it's expired). I can't find this film for sale anywhere lately.

Dead Link Removed

It's gone! One of my favorite films of all time.
 

markbarendt

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OP
OP

B&Wpositive

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Fujifilm USA product inventory updated

Fujifilm USA has updated their website. The films listed are:

Consumer negative:
-Fujifilm 200
-Fujifilm X-TRA 400
-Fujifilm X-TRA 800
link: http://www.fujifilmusa.com/products/film/35mm_print/index.html
*Fujicolor 100, Superia 100, and Superia 1600 no longer listed. Note that the current 200 speed film is not labeled "X-TRA", so it probably is a 3-layer film (strictly conjecture on my part).

Consumer slide:
-Sensia 100
link: http://www.fujifilmusa.com/products/film/35mm_slide/index.html
*Sensia 200 and Sensia 400 are no longer listed.

Pro negative ['portrait']:
-Pro 400H
link: http://www.fujifilmusa.com/products/professional_photography/film/fujicolor_portrait/index.html
*As expected, 160S, 160C, and 800Z are no longer listed.

Fujicolor Press:
-Fujicolor Press 400
-Fujicolor Press 800
-Fujicolor Press 1600
link: http://www.fujifilmusa.com/products/professional_photography/film/fujicolor_press/index.html
*These are Superia films with a different label. Theoretically, Superia 1600 should still be available under the Press designation in the US, but I haven't seen any lately in stores. We'll have to wait and see. This is potentially good news for those who are trying to find Fuji 1600.

Fujichrome [Pro]:
-Velvia 50
-T64 Tungsten
-Astia 100F
-Provia 100F
-Velvia 100
-Velvia 100F
-Provia 400
link: http://www.fujifilmusa.com/products/professional_photography/film/fujichrome/index.html
*No changes here so far. No news is good news in this case.


B&W negative:
-Neopan 100 Acros
-Neopan 400
-Neopan 1600
link: http://www.fujifilmusa.com/products/professional_photography/film/neopan_black_white/index.html
*Neopan 400 is still listed.

24mm (APS):
-Nexia 400 (C-41)

There are also some instant films as well.

So the real deletions appear to be ISO 100 color print films and all pro color neg films except 400H (as was expected). Fujicolor 1600's status is still up in the air (listed on the webpage as Press 1600, but hard or impossible to find in stores in the US currently).
 
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