What fuel Leica hatred...

[Lee Rust]

1. Build a wall.
2. Lock 'em up.
3. Can't we all just get along?

Choose one.

 

[anta40]

I think "hatred" is a really strong word, which is unecessary.
I don't hate Leica. They never do anything bad to me, except making expensive products which are normally I can't afford

They deserve the right to put the price tag however they please. That means I'm simply not among their audiences. Case closed.

Take a look at Leica M-A, for example. +$4K for a manual focus, meterless film camera? Well someday maybe I'll get one. At the meantime, I'm happy with the Nikons

 

[georg16nik]

...

Take a look at Leica M-A, for example. +$4K for a manual focus, meterless film camera? Well someday maybe I'll get one. At the meantime...

They've been in the high-end film camera/lens business for over 100 years - given the cultural significance, the film Leica cameras should be considered an Art in itself.
Leica M-A is really a great camera and the current market price is way too low - $4K is peanuts for such mechanical marvel, besides - the dollar depreciates faster than a crooked US politician.
Given the cost of film, paper and chemistry... just about every premium camera seems cheap.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

I think "hatred" is a really strong word, which is unecessary.
I don't hate Leica. They never do anything bad to me, except making expensive products which are normally I can't afford

They deserve the right to put the price tag however they please. That means I'm simply not among their audiences. Case closed.

Take a look at Leica M-A, for example. +$4K for a manual focus, meterless film camera? Well someday maybe I'll get one. At the meantime, I'm happy with the Nikons

Actually the MA is closer to the original concept than any other available model, and the only currently produced Leica I would fantasise about buying.
If you think the price is high, do some research and compare what $4000 will buy today to the price of a new Leica 80 years ago; when you could buy a new car for $600, a small house for $2500, and a yearly salary of $1800 was average, a new Leica cost about $250. $4000 for an MA looks like a pretty good deal. Plus, no red dot!!

 

[blockend]

If you think the price is high, do some research and compare what $4000 will buy today to the price of a new Leica 80 years ago; when you could buy a new car for $600, a small house for $2500, and a yearly salary of $1800 was average, a new Leica cost about $250. $4000 for an MA looks like a pretty good deal. Plus, no red dot!!

While that is undoubtedly true, it's also the case that the world is awash in well kept, nicely made mechanical cameras, some of which are used Leica rangefinders. You can pick up a nice M3 from £500-1000, and an immaculate one sold last week for £1400 with Summicron. So a near perfect M3 is about a third of the cost of a MA, and unlikely to depreciate, while the MA will drop in value by a third to a half as soon as you walk out the shop. It's hard to see why anyone would buy an MA over an M2/3/4/5/6.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

While that is undoubtedly true, it's also the case that the world is awash in well kept, nicely made mechanical cameras, some of which are used Leica rangefinders. You can pick up a nice M3 from £500-1000, and an immaculate one sold last week for £1400 with Summicron. So a near perfect M3 is about a third of the cost of a MA, and unlikely to depreciate, while the MA will drop in value by a third to a half as soon as you walk out the shop. It's hard to see why anyone would buy an MA over an M2/3/4/5/6.

They'll buy it because it comes with a box. Then they'll plonk down $1200 or so for a lens, also with box, a few hundred more for a case and some other goodies, and the average Leica buyer will dangle it from wrist or neck and take pictures of the cats, posting them on line captioned with ravings about how wonderful Leicas are.
I could have had another M3 DS body a couple years ago, it was cosmetically about a 8.5 to 9 and needed new shutter curtains, $275. I bought a 1936 Contax II instead because I like the mechanicals and the rangefinder is better, also the lenses for my Kiev fit and work well.

 

[Richard Man]

The current MP with the meter, or the M7 with the auto-exposure are the greatest photo-taking 35mm rangefinders ever built, collector-value not withstanding.

 

[michr]

I'm too much of a utilitarian for a new Leica. But what I actually dislike, hate would be too strong of a word, reserved for life's truly abhorrent things, is the promotion of the Leica by the people who are sold on its attributes. I stopped being swayed when I realized larger formats exist. The sharpest 35mm is meaningless if for $100 you can jump to another level and buy a used medium format TLR.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

I'm too much of a utilitarian for a new Leica. But what I actually dislike, hate would be too strong of a word, reserved for life's truly abhorrent things, is the promotion of the Leica by the people who are sold on its attributes. I stopped being swayed when I realized larger formats exist. The sharpest 35mm is meaningless if for $100 you can jump to another level and buy a used medium format TLR.

Agree 100%. Paradoxically, using larger formats impressed on me just what a good job the miniature format does.
The improvement in tonality from 35mm to 6x6cm is dramatic, and an old Rolleiflex Automat is both a bargain and quieter than a Leica. A tlr can be used very unobtrusively as well.
It's really a shame that such a deightfully competent tool as a Leica has become srrounded by this excremental aura.

 

[removed account4]

I'm too much of a utilitarian for a new Leica. But what I actually dislike, hate would be too strong of a word, reserved for life's truly abhorrent things, is the promotion of the Leica by the people who are sold on its attributes. I stopped being swayed when I realized larger formats exist. The sharpest 35mm is meaningless if for $100 you can jump to another level and buy a used medium format TLR.

YeAh but it would t e a leicA MF or LF camera
while Mr and lf could be nice bling. Leica is better bling

 

[Ai Print]

If not shame, then embarrassment. DAG has made a fair amount of money selling black dots.

Not for me, I just want to keep ( most of ) my gear low key. Besides it was only $22.

Among other tools this year, I spent $12,000 on the camera and 35mm 1.4 lens pictured and you know what? I think the image quality is incredible, the experience of using it is engaging and yet un-obstructive and I see the difference in the results.

So I have to ask then: To the people saying there is no difference between photos made with Leica cameras and lenses and others and I don't know what I am talking about....who the Hell are you to tell me that?

 

[c41]

While that is undoubtedly true, it's also the case that the world is awash in well kept, nicely made mechanical cameras, some of which are used Leica rangefinders. You can pick up a nice M3 from £500-1000, and an immaculate one sold last week for £1400 with Summicron. So a near perfect M3 is about a third of the cost of a MA, and unlikely to depreciate, while the MA will drop in value by a third to a half as soon as you walk out the shop. It's hard to see why anyone would buy an MA over an M2/3/4/5/6.

I wish one of you would buy the M-A I’m selling in the classifieds! It’s considerably less than quoted prices above.

It’s not 50-60 years old is the primary reason why to buy one, an M3 can run perfectly or it can unexpectedly behave like a 50 year old camera. Near perfect on the outside perhaps but where was the camera in 1960 and what’s it been doing since.

Black ones, even repainted ones, cost more than s/h M-As which is really nuts imo.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Why is the fact that it is their money that is being spent and not yours such a hard concept? I have the Hasselblad SWC [38mm], the 50mm,80mm, 100mm, 150mm, 250mm and the 500mm lens and my girlfriend has never complained.

 

[Ai Print]

I have the Hasselblad SWC [38mm], the 50mm,80mm, 100mm, 150mm, 250mm and the 500mm lens and my girlfriend has never complained.

I have the 40mm FLE, 50mm FLE, 60mm CFi, 80mm CFe, 100mm CFi, 120mm CF, 180mm CFi, 350mm CF and the 1.4XE and my girlfriend married me, LOL!!

 

[Sirius Glass]

Ah but we have been together for sixteen years, but we have never had a fight so we want to be sure that the relationship works first.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

I've never compared apples to oranges, but I'd bet my left nut that the latest Sony with a Zeiss lens put in front of it would trounce the Leica whatever. Leica is busy these days reintroducing fuzzy lenses and Zeiss is busy knocking it out of the park. But, you know, whatevs. Personally I don't care. I don't care what the front of your lens or the front of your camera says, just that the images are compelling.

I like Leicas, don't get me wrong, totally fun to use, but if you think they are the greatest quality wise from an empirical standpoint then the rest of us with eyes will go do some shopping so your emperor can be covered up with some new clothes. Leica is typically a generation or two behind in technology. Always has been. They still make fun cameras. I'd use one. Resolution isn't everything.

 

[removed account4]

This threAd is hilarious.
Spend money on a Leica or don’t
Buy a pens or don’t
Use a Japanese or European camera or lens ( or her than Leica )
Hate them all and make your own or shoot a pinhole or your cellphone
Who cares what camera someone else is using just use what you have or. Can afford and save hour hate energy and transform it into love or art or both
Too much hate on this small planet of ours and it just makes life worse
For everyone
So instead of all the bs. Just make photograph that means something to you
And do t waste your energy hating Leica or lomo or Pentax or boxcamera Cellphone or holts or Minolta or lumininist or copiest or outlier ...
just make stuff

 

[Richard Man]

Nothing like Leica to bring out the haters and lovers. See, it's a UNITER! ;-P

As someone who is shooting 400+ sheets of 4x5 a year, and just shot 16 rolls of 120 last weekend alone, and have hundreds of rolls shot with XPan II, if I have to keep just one camera, the M7 (or may be since I can only keep one, the M10 which I do not have) would be high on the list. I'd take the XPan II for sure, if there's a F2 lens for it.

 

[Ai Print]

Notice in the post I made above that I did not say Leica is better than other gear. I just said I see a difference which I do.

It’s all personal preference, I have a Zeiss 50/2 Planar for Leica M, a Voigtlander Nokton 50mm 1.5 for Leica M and then three Leica lenses. I enjoy them all and I do see a difference in how the Leica glass renders.

I also have Zeiss glass for my Nikon system and in terms of Nikon glass, I have the utterly incredible 105mm F1.4, a lens that is in a class of it’s own much like the Canon 85mm 1.2L.

Such amazing equipment out there & so much of it is a blast to use. So I just don’t get why Leica gets hammered on so much on this site which is a lot more than any other. If one person so much as says Leica is great equipment, 3-4 more chime in and say it is all hype, jewelry, etc.

Page after page of bashing Leica is like a cyclical weather pattern on here, it’s rather odd.

 

[blockend]

Page after page of bashing Leica is like a cyclical weather pattern on here, it’s rather odd.

I don't think people hate Leica, laugh at them sometimes, but not hate. It's another heavy metal miniature format camera whose mount survived digital year zero. People get far too hung up on cameras at the expense of the print. No one should care what camera someone uses, and those who do have their priorities back to front. When someone can tell what 35mm camera a 10 x 8" print was taken on by looking at it, I'll take camera brand fans seriously.

 

[anta40]

They've been in the high-end film camera/lens business for over 100 years - given the cultural significance, the film Leica cameras should be considered an Art in itself.

I'm aware of that. I understand that Leica audiences are smaller markets who are willing to pay really (really) high

Leica M-A is really a great camera and the current market price is way too low - $4K is peanuts for such mechanical marvel, besides - the dollar depreciates faster than a crooked US politician.

You live in the West, I pressume? I guess it pays.
$4K is hell a lot for me. I'm already happy with an M2, M3, or M6. Someday I'll get an MP or M-A . Someday...

 

[georg16nik]

...When someone can tell what 35mm camera a 10 x 8" print was taken on by looking at it, I'll take camera brand fans seriously.

Take Nikon 50mm f/1.4 for example, lets say on the other end we have 50mm f/1.4 Summilux, let's say from the 1960's.
Focus close distance and @ 2.8, the Nikon's 7 blades heptagonal diaphragm results in quite agricultural OOF areas.
Compare the resulting photographs with the ones from the 12 bladed Summilux or the 16 bladed 50mm f/1.5 ltm Summarit from the 1940's.

It's one thing @ f/8 and lens set to infinity and completely different 1 or 2 stops from wide-open and close distance focus, where the apparent differences are non-existent only to people who lack or don't care about visual aesthetics.

You don't really need to print 10 x 8" to see why Leica is still kicking strong after 100 years, sometimes you just lift up the neg and the magic is right there, starring at you.

...
You live in the West, I pressume? I guess it pays.
$4K is hell a lot for me. I'm already happy with an M2, M3, or M6. Someday I'll get an MP or M-A . Someday...

West? No.
I am mostly on a plane to somewhere.
M2, M3 are excellent, when in good shape and properly taken care thru the years but M-A is a good option if you want brand new - some do.

 

[darkosaric]

You live in the West, I pressume? I guess it pays.
$4K is hell a lot

This is true, people on west have more money (I know, I have live on the east many years, coming originally from east part of Europe).
If you live in Germany, and you have minimum wage full time job - that is around 1100 EUR after tax - netto in you pocket. Small apartment/room will cost you around 500, food and basic stuff 250, so you can save 350 every month. After one year everybody can buy M-A here. Buying 1000 EUR iphone here is nothing usual, I see in the underground that every second person has one.

 

[darkosaric]

nothing usual,

nothing unusual

 

[BrianVS]

My two most recently acquired Leicas were given to me, a IIIa and a IIIc. They both needed some minor repair.
The CL with the 40/2 Summicron pretty much replaced my Black Canonet QL17n for a grab-and-go camera, meter still accurate on both of them. I can put the Canon 50/1.5 on the CL- fast and almost as compact as the 40/2.
Years ago RFF did a "poll" of the profession of members that shot with Leica: most were Engineers. As an Engineer myself, I appreciate the design and build quality of Leica. As someone that has worked in optics for almost 40 years, I appreciate being able to use 85 years of some of the best lenses ever designed on the Leica. I've converted a lot of lenses to Leica mount, enough to have paid for the M9 and M Monochrom. When I read someone posting "You are missing the Leica experience if you don't use a Leica lens on a Leica camera"- I pass them of as being ignorant. I've run across very few of those people, but they exist. They don't know what they are missing, as much as someone that passes off Leica cameras and lenses because of users like that.