What are these spots??

ColdEye · Sep 23, 2011

I scanned 2 rolls of film that I developed last night. It was a Kodak Tri-X and Ilford Delta 400, both are about a year past expiration date, but are cold stored since I had them. What I did was I developed them in stock Xtol for about 7 minutes and 10 seconds agitation every minute. After developing I washed them with water for about a minute, I did not use the stop bath that I have since in my previous sessions all I developed without it came out fine. Then Kodak fixer for ten minutes, after that I washed it again for 10 minutes and applied Photo Flo last. Only the Tri-X showed these spots. what could it be?

Mainecoonmaniac · Sep 23, 2011

They look like bubbles on your film when you developed them. You need to tap your tank to dislodge bubbles when you pour in the developer. I could be wrong, but other APUGers can correct me if I'm wrong.

Photo Engineer · Sep 23, 2011

They look like air bubbles to me. Presoaking the film before development will help eliminate this problem as will tapping the edge of the tank as you pour the developer or prewet water into it..

PE

Ian C · Sep 23, 2011

I agree. Soaking the film with tempered water for a minute before the developing step and rapping the tank after each agitation should prevent the problem.

ColdEye · Sep 23, 2011

I see. Will inverting the tank do the trick? In my past developing sessions I invert the quickly for like 10 seconds, but last night I just swirled it around.

Ian Grant · Sep 23, 2011

Sometimes in hard water areas air bubbles can be a real problem, they can occur at all stages and tapping and slightly more vigourous agitation may help, as may a pre-soak. However sometimes they can't be eliminated easily, it may be you need to use deionised/distilled water to make up your chemistry.

Developers are designed to cope with most tap water but there can still be problems. I did some visual testing 2 or 3 years ago and found that air bubbles can form at any time and they mainly stick at the edges, good agitation removes some but in my case (very hard & slightly salty water) a pre soak, tapping, inversion agitation wouldn't stop them. Some emulsions are more prone than others as well.

However as yours seem to be in the middle of the negatives your initial agitation is probably insufficient it should be continuous for at least the first 30 seconds.

You posted as I was writing and effectively confirmed my above comment

Ian

BobD · Sep 23, 2011

In The Darkroom Cookbook, Steve Anchell states that wetting solution (Photo-Flo, etc) can be added to a developer to help prevent this sort of thing.

Ian Grant · Sep 23, 2011

BobD said:
In The Darkroom Cookbook, Steve Anchell states that wetting solution (Photo-Flo, etc) can be added to a developer to help prevent this sort of thing.

Best as a last resort because you can easily cuase foaming which is in fact worse.

In my csae I wasn't using a commercial developer so I had to add a very small amount of wetting agent, again I did tests to see how much and it was surprising that a minute amount 2 drops of diluted agent was sufficient to entirely eliminate the problem.

Ian

Photo Engineer · Sep 23, 2011

Inversion agitation will not remove air bubbles as a general rule. Tapping or banging the tank will dislodge or loosen the bubbles much more effectively.

Addition of a surfactant or wetting agent to a developer is not suggested in any of the books that I trust. The reason is that the surfactant can actually cause more bubbles to form due to foaming action.

PE

paul ron · Sep 25, 2011

After each agitation set you should rap the tank a few times on the hard surface to dislodge stuborn bubbles.

.

Worker 11811 · Sep 25, 2011

As it is written in the holy texts by the gods of the film:

Ian Grant · Sep 25, 2011

Worker 11811 said:
As it is written in the holy texts by the gods of the film:

Try that with a Paterson multi spiral unit the one that takes 7 reels of 35mm

What ever you do don't rap a plastic tank hard they tend to break or split, a gentle tap is OK.

Ian

kevs · Sep 25, 2011

I agree with the others, it looks like air bubbles. Pre-soaking for two minutes with two drops of wetting agent added to the water will help eliminate air bubbles adhering to the film. If you're using a plastic tank, don't bang it too hard - you might crack it! BTDT!

Good luck,
kevs.

Worker 11811 · Sep 25, 2011

Ian Grant said:
What ever you do don't rap a plastic tank hard they tend to break or split, a gentle tap is OK.

Another APUG member gave me this tip, a while ago:
Get an old, unused mouse pad. One that you won't use for the computer anymore. Put it on the bottom of your sink or counter where you develop film and use that to bump your tanks on.

I always tap my tanks three times. Old habit. My first photography teacher in high school always told us "three times for good luck."

brucemuir · Sep 25, 2011

Informative, I've never seen/had a "air bell" problem but now I know what they look like.

I wouldn't have guessed thats what caused this.

ColdEye · Sep 26, 2011

I followed the tapping advice and it works like a charm. Plus I went back to the inversion technique, even tho there are leaks.

Worker 11811 · Sep 26, 2011

That's whey God made rubber gloves.

ColdEye · Sep 26, 2011

Is there a tank that does not leak? I am using a omega brand tank with plastic reels that I bought at a store here.

MattKing · Sep 26, 2011

ColdEye said:
Is there a tank that does not leak? I am using a omega brand tank with plastic reels that I bought at a store here.

For stainless steel reels - no.

Although some are much better than others.

For plastic reels, I've had a variety of experiences. I think this one from Freestyle is same as the AP brand tanks that I have that are relatively leak free (at least for now): http://www.freestylephoto.biz/5041-...el-Developing-Tank-with-two-reels?cat_id=1603

Thomas Bertilsson · Sep 26, 2011

ColdEye said:
Is there a tank that does not leak? I am using a omega brand tank with plastic reels that I bought at a store here.

Stainless steel tanks with plastic lids are pretty close to leak proof.

The ones Freestyle sell are great. I recommend using Hewes reels. It's worth the extra cost.

ColdEye · Sep 26, 2011

Thanks guys! The SS tank and plastic reels look like a good idea. Gonna check freestyle on that.

MattKing · Sep 26, 2011

ColdEye said:
Thanks guys! The SS tank and plastic reels look like a good idea. Gonna check freestyle on that.

Sorry if we may have confused you - as far as I know no-one makes a SS tank and plastic reel combination.

ColdEye · Sep 26, 2011

I mean, ill buy a ss tank and then a seperate plastic reel, or is that combination not possible to use?

MattKing · Sep 26, 2011

ColdEye said:
I mean, ill buy a ss tank and then a seperate plastic reel, or is that combination not possible to use?

Nope - the plastic reels are too big in diameter to fit in any SS tanks (that I am aware of).

In addition, as far as I am aware, the only SS reels that work in plastic tanks are Hewes reels that are specially designed for JOBO tanks.

Vilk · Sep 26, 2011

Ian Grant said:
What ever you do don't rap a plastic tank hard they tend to break or split, a gentle tap is OK.

shark's teeth have nothing on the bottom edge of my tanks, a mess of half-cracked splinters in all directions! and boy, you should really see my sink one of these days...

What are these spots??

ColdEye

Attachments

Mainecoonmaniac

Photo Engineer

Ian C

ColdEye

Ian Grant

BobD

Ian Grant

Photo Engineer

paul ron

Worker 11811

Attachments

Ian Grant

kevs

Worker 11811

brucemuir

ColdEye

Worker 11811

ColdEye

MattKing

Moderator

Thomas Bertilsson

ColdEye

MattKing

Moderator

ColdEye

MattKing

Moderator

Vilk

What are these spots??

Attachments

Attachments

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency