Wet Plate Collodion Questions

Kerik · Nov 28, 2007

RobertP said:
Kerik, Isn't the Verito a petzval design? I mean as you stop down you get a sharper image out to the corners. Wouldn't that happen also with a Dallmeyer 3A if you used a small enough waterhouse stop? But the Verito is considered a soft focus lens and the Dallmeyer is not? I thought what made them a petzval design was the fact that there is one element up front and two in the back. Then again I'm no optics expert.

Robert,

Nor am I. Jason is much better informed on these details than I am. If the Verito is a petzval, then there is something different about it to add the beautiful diffusion that it gives at and near wide open. The Derogy and the Dallmeyer that I have are petzval lenses but exhibit NO diffusion or soft focus effects wide open or stopped down.

RobertP · Nov 28, 2007

Scott, Was the Vesta manufactured after the Verito?

RobertP · Nov 28, 2007

Kerik, I see your point. I too have a Verito and a Dallmeyer and the Dallmeyer has no where near the diffusion that the Verito has at F4 or even up to F11 across the entire film plane. The Verito is one magical piece of glass for sure.

RobertP · Nov 28, 2007

Maybe Jason will jump in here and give us a brief dissertation on lens design. As long as he realizes that it needs to be something along the lines of " Lens Design for Dummies" at least in my case anyway.

TheFlyingCamera · Nov 28, 2007

It is my understanding that they are contemporaneous - the Vesta was sold as a budget Verito.

schrochem · Nov 28, 2007

an 18" verito just got added to the apug classifieds. Yep, those things have increased in value.
Based on what yall are saying, maybe i'll try to find a petzval f/4 type lens.
I see Joe found his way to some of those brass lenses on ebay

Kerik · Nov 28, 2007

Yeah, prices have gotten a bit insane for these lenses. I bought mine in 2002 for $250. And mine is in a Studio shutter...

Brook · Nov 28, 2007

A bit insane I agree, one sold on fleabay not to long ago for over a grand, did have a studio shutter though. 16" kodak portrait lenses and long heliars are even worse (drool....)

RobertP · Nov 28, 2007

A friend of mine bought one from Seth 2 yr ago. A mint 18" in a studio shutter and it had the extra front element that converted it to a 22" lens for 500.00

Neil Miller · Nov 29, 2007

The Lens Collectors Vade Mecum lists the Vitex and Vesta as petzval arrangements. The Vitax was listed in 1914 and had a softness adjustment. The Vesta was like the Vitax but slower and without the softness adjustment. On some models the rear cell could be removed and replaced with the front lens (reversed) for full-head photos.

The Verito listing says that it appeared in post 1919 catalogues and was a symmetrical design, well colour corrected with a lot of detail but softish due to spherical abberrations, becoming sharper on stopping down. The iris was designed to give a ragged edge, which gives way to the smooth outline of the mount on opening up beyond f8.0. In 1926 a 'new' Verito soft focus lens was introduced. It was an unsymmetrical doublet. The 18inch version was suggested for use with the 5x7 format. A 1920s Wollensak catalogue describes the Verito as being a rectilinear lens. some models appeared to be convertable.

Regards,
Neil.

RobertP · Nov 29, 2007

Neil, The Verito is listed in the Wollensak 1912 catalog. Along with the Vesta and the Vitax.

Neil Miller · Nov 29, 2007

Oh well, Robert - another error in the 'essential' lens book!
Regards,
Neil.

schrochem · Nov 29, 2007

Another question that has arisen.
Doing wetplate photography do any of yall use movements much? If so which and how often?
It seems the effect of the lens is of primary concern.
Comments, suggestions, peanuts, crackers?

Thanks

schrochem · Dec 2, 2007

Well I tried to get one of those nifty CC harrison lens, but whoever toothschmidt is, took it away. Doesn't he have enough lenses? I think bruce was trying for this one also. I thought maybe some people missed it cuz it was listed as a harrifonl

TheFlyingCamera · Dec 2, 2007

Scott- that one looked a bit rough. I passed on it - seeing the price, I'm really glad I passed. There's a glut of old brass lenses up on eBay right now - surely at least one will be more to your taste. Here's the one I just scored-

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=280175872033

a beautiful Darlot #2 Hemispherique Rapide (a rapid-rectilinear most likely). The photos in the Ebay listing don't do it justice. The brass is in much nicer shape.

schrochem · Dec 14, 2007

Well the saga continues....
I was gonna wait but one thing led to another and I now possess a Korona 11X14. Robert Seto over on the LF Forum brought it up on a thread and I 'had' to ask him about it...
Well it's off getting a conversion back now.
So, back to lenses. I'm gonna need something to cover this puppy. Those Veritos sound nice but probably expensive to cover 11X14. Any other suggestions? Gracias.

TheFlyingCamera · Dec 14, 2007

I have a Bausch & Lomb Portrait Tessar 1c that covers 11x14 quite nicely. It's a bit modern a lens for wet-plate, but it handles the format well enough. In ultramodern glass, a Nikkor 450-M will do quite nicely. Then there's the old standby 14" Commercial Ektar. If you want to stick to old glass, the Dallmeyer/Voigtlander/etc #5 size lenses usually do the trick.

schrochem · Dec 14, 2007

Thanks Scott.
I guess I would like to stay with the older 'look' but that doesn't necessarily mean it has to be an old lens. I've noticed venturing into Wetplate has really opened my eyes to all the different kinds of lenses. I have much to learn! I just wish I could just try them all out and buy the ones I like
I look on Ebay and go 'oh that would probably be cool!'....not exactly the best way to spend money
With film and digital I was always looking for the sharpest, lightest lenses, now I want to explore lenses that add 'character' and compliment the wet plate process. Weight really isn't an issue any more...and neither is a shutter! Or for that matter, stops can be avoided

schrochem · Dec 17, 2007

I was going back through what was said about lenses earlier and Kerik's post caught my attention. Specifically, using a lens on a larger plate than it was made for. How do you know if the lens is going to give you bokeh on larger plates instead of just going black?
Kerik, the 3A (listed for 6.5X8.5") covers 11X14?
As I mentioned, I know have a Korona 11X14 and it has 6X6 boards, so I have a little more girth to play with. That 18" verito sounds interesting. Jeremy graciously offered to let me borrow his, but I sent the camera off for a new back. This, however, brought up another problem, perhaps 6X6 isn't gonna be enough for some of these big lenses. Jeremy's 18" has a 6.5" flange.
Any creative ways around this?
Last query: any verito users, use just the rear element?
Thanks

Kerik said:
Just and FYI on this. As Jason Motamedi has pointed out on similar threads, a Petzval is NOT a soft focus lens. They are in fact quite sharp (for their age) in the center. Those of us using them often use them on much larger plate (or film) sizes than they were designed for, so farther away from the center of the image you start getting the cool swirly bokeh going on. But, this is not the same as a true soft focus lens like the Verito, Pinkham and Smith, Kodak Portrait, Imagon, etc. Completely different animal. That said, my most used lenses for wet plate are a Derogy No. 3 Portrait lens (petzval design) for 8x10 and Dallmeyer 3A (petzval) for 11x14. But, also in heavy rotation are various soft focus lenses (18" Verito being the fave), a single-element landscape lens, Dagors, Artars, etc.

smieglitz · Dec 17, 2007

Here's a nude in the woods on a 10x12 done with a Dallmeyer 3A. You can see the vignetting beginning in the corners and it would only be worse (or better, depending on your outlook) on an 11x14 plate.

10"x12" Ruby Ambrotype

The 3A and 18" Verito are huge lenses and quite heavy. You may wish to think about some sort of auxilary support for them on your Korona. Here's a 3A on a 9" board on my 11x14 Burke and James:

Joe

Jeremy · Dec 17, 2007

Just love that shot, Joe. I finally mounted my Dallmeyer 3A up this past week... managed with to get it onto an 8x10 Empire State with some ingenuity and luck.

Kerik · Dec 17, 2007

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)an 11x14 plate made with my 3A.

schrochem · Dec 17, 2007

Joe, that's awesome! I remember seeing that photograph of yours but knowing more about the process and lenses makes me enjoy it even more. Hmmm....so how do you know if the lens is gonna do this? I guess the dallmeyers do! Oh dear, this opens up a whole other area to play with....
I see all those old lenses and think 'I wonder what that one will do?'
Scott

schrochem · Dec 17, 2007

Thanks Kerik. did you (and joe) shoot those plates wide open?
Now I want to see all sorts of examples!
This could get real fun. It sure is a whole other world from using flat sharp glass corner to corner.
I like it!
Thanks fellas

smieglitz · Dec 17, 2007

Mine was done wide-open IIRC.

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