Welta Weltini

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Donald Qualls

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I just got my second Welta Weltini II. Well, okay, it's the first fully working one (the previous has a bent cocking lever that jams, and the RF coupler is uncoupled -- I can fix it, when I have time).

The Weltini isn't a model everyone's heard of, like a Retina II, Leica 3, or Contax II -- but it's a pre-War 35mm folding camera with coupled RF. Like most cameras of the day, they were sold with different option levels; my first one has a Steinheil Cassar 50mm f/2.9; this second one has a Schneider-Kreuznach Xenon 50mm f/2 -- enough larger lens that the front cover is visibly larger to accommodate it. The shutter is a Welta branded Synchro-Compur, 1 to 500 speeds, PC sync. Aperture setting is a little fiddly, down between the lens and the bed, but they had to do that to keep the cocking lever accessible and let the body release fire the shutter.

Focusing is unit type -- the entire front standard moves on a helicoid with a small lever, and its movement operates the moving mirror in the RF. Despite a tiny-seeming eyepiece, even with my glasses on I can use the viewfinder pretty well, and the RF patch, while not the brightest I've seen (that honor goes to a Polaroid 350), is plenty bright to use in good enough light to hand hold without flash.

It's got a couple little quirks compared to my other folding 35mm camera, a Balda Jubilette -- first, it has a very effective double exposure lock that can't be bypassed by releasing the rewind and holding the rewind knob while advancing -- it depends on the rotation of the sprocket by the film to unlock. On the other hand, it has an easily reset frame counter that's also not likely to get accidentally reset the way the ones on my Kiev 4 bodies do. This one has an accessory shoe, my first Weltini does not. The tripod socket is 3/8" thread (the old standard for German cameras), rather than the modern 1/4" size. My first Weltini has a bushing in the thread; this second one may get a bushing in the everready case screw, but can't in the body because the case needs the larger thread.

An important caveat with the Weltini: you must not attempt to close the camera with the shutter cocked! This is most likely how the cocking lever on my first one got bent (before I ever saw it).

After testing everything I can without shooting and processing film, I've loaded the camera with a fresh roll of Ultrafine Extreme 100 (thanks, @Bormental ), and hope to get enough daylight opportunities to process the test roll this coming weekend.
 

Kino

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I have been staring at a Weltini II for several days... Maybe I'll buy it. Lord knows I don't need it, but...

I'll be watching for your results.

Fun fact; it's a Welti 1, turned upside down with a rangefinder grafted on the bottom. Ever wonder why the film runs backwards? :D

Also looking at the Certo Dollina; Choices, choices.
 
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BradS

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Photos or it does not exist! :smile:
 
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Donald Qualls

Donald Qualls

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Hey, I didn't come up with the name. Weltini was an upgrade (RF added) of the Welti, and around the same period came the Weltix, the economy camera. Welti (scale-focus viewfinder folder) is very similar to the Balda Jubilette I have, while the Weltini is closer to a Super Jubilette. Very compact -- a little bigger than a Rollei 35, but then the Rollei doesn't have an RF under the top plate. It's another camera that, like the 6x9 Bessa, seems well suited to left-handers -- as one reviewer noted, for economies of production, Welta reused the same body as the Welti, but adding the RF required essentially turning the camera upside down, putting the advance and rewind knobs on the bottom, opening the bed to the user's left instead of right, and the film cassette on the right, takeup on the left, as well as the body release on the left.

The Olympus XA proves this isn't as small as a full frame RF can get, but it might be as small as a normal lens, unit focusing full frame RF ever got. The XA is element focused (actually moves one of the middle elements of a 4/4 non-Tessar lens) and has a 38mm. I've never handled a Retina, but this camera is probably similar size to a Retina II, if not a hair smaller. And it's quite heavy for its size; the body must be solid cast iron or bronze under the skin.
 
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Donald Qualls

Donald Qualls

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It is a very cool looking camera. I hate threads like this, it makes me go to ebay...

If you're a collector, it's even worse than that. My two Weltinis are both "Weltini II" but they have significant differences -- on has a shoe, the other not, one has the advance release on the bottom, the other on the edge where the door will hide it (or operate it?), and one has a squeeze-tabs film door latch while the other has a slide latch. Vertical stand leg folds opposite directions, too. And the first version Weltini has a whole different top cover, without the smooth contours this version has. You could easily collect three to five different versions of the Weltini over a four year production run.
 

AgX

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Hey, I didn't come up with the name.

Welta is seemingly derived from Welt (= world).

You guys now buying those cameras off Ebay likely would still please the two founders of that firm.

The firm was one of the first german ones to be closed, as camera manufacturer. Already in 1959 it was swallowed by the Pentacon predecessor. That seemingly took over the current production and some employees, the majority of them though started manufacturing scientific devices, under a new name.
 

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I have a Welti with a Meyer-Optik Trioplan 50mm f/2.9 lens that is an absolute jewel. I wish they had survived a few more decades; they would have undoubtedly make some more very nice cameras.
 

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The Retina IIa is also deceptively heavy for its size. I always just assumed it was made of plutonium.

If I were a betting man I’d say that Xenon is likely to outperform that Cassar handily.
Just a guess, but I’ve used both lenses (each on different cameras) and there’s really no contest.
 
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Donald Qualls

Donald Qualls

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If I were a betting man I’d say that Xenon is likely to outperform that Cassar handily.
Just a guess, but I’ve used both lenses (each on different cameras) and there’s really no contest.

I agree -- no contest. The Cassar is a triplet, IIRC, though apparently not the Cooke formula -- the Xenon is not even in the same class. It's the lens that made the Retina famous. And it's the reason I went ahead and pulled the trigger on this camera when I already had the one with the Cassar waiting for relatively minor work. Just as fast as the Jupiter-8 on my Kiev 4, but much more compact (and the Synchro-Compur can actually be serviced when needed).
 

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The Retina IIa is also deceptively heavy for its size. I always just assumed it was made of plutonium.

I briefly owned an Iskra 6x6 folder. That camera's heft was ridiculous given it's dimensions! I think they made it out of lead.
 
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Donald Qualls

Donald Qualls

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Must have been a lot of that back in the day. My Super Ikonta B (532/16, early post-War) is heavy for its size, too. Like I said, castings. Not built up from sheet brass like my 1927 Voigtlander Rollfilmkamera...
 
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Donald Qualls

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Are you sure it isn't a Compur-Rapid and the PC contact added post-war?

I had to remove the front lens cell to verify, but this is labeled as a Compur-Rapid. The sync connector is on an arm that extends radially from the shutter body, near the cocking lever and at-rest focus knob position, but the actual synchronizer appears to operate by a tab the cocking lever moves slightly when cocked -- flash would seemingly fire (haven't tested, don't have a PC sync flash handy) when the cocking lever starts its travel (most likely making it M sync with no X option, appropriate for 1940-41 manufacture). Apparently, over time, there were versions of the Compur-Rapid that were made with various kinds of sync contacts and connectors; the post-War Synchro-Compur appears to be mainly distinguished by having MXV synch mode selector (M = ~20ms prefire, X = fire at maximum opening, V = self-timer flash sync). I suspect what I have is a factory M sync version of the Compur-Rapid in a specialized layout for the very compact 35mm folding camera. Flash was used fairly routinely by the 1940-1941 dates of the last version of the Weltini (though I wouldn't have thought it would be common with a miniature camera like this, since the only bulbs available pre-War were screw-base #11/Press 40 and bayonet #2, and the holders for those were generally pretty large)
 

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I briefly owned an Iskra 6x6 folder. That camera's heft was ridiculous given it's dimensions! I think they made it out of lead.
I still have my Iskra; a better camera than it has any right to be. It does, indeed, make the Retina seem like helium by comparison. And the Iskra is a featherweight next to a Moskva!
 

JPD

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If it is a PC style connector, then it was added after the war. It came as standard on the Compur-Rapid around 1950, and then with X sync. The M/X selector came later. It is of course possible that the owner of the camera had it synchronised for flash bulbs.
 
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Donald Qualls

Donald Qualls

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Okay, this shutter has a 1939-1947 serial number (5.9 million series), which fits well with the camera model's run ending in 1941. The sync certainly seems like part of the shutter, despite the PC socket pointing forward, toward the scene, and being in a somewhat awkward location that has the potential to interfere with focusing from the infinity position. Perhaps a factory retrofit? But every reference I can find in a reasonable time suggests the PC sync standard didn't even exist when this camera was built, so it has to be a post-War upgrade.

Can't complain, but I wonder if there's a way to add a 20 ms delay to a modern flash, of if I'll have to dig up and test my little folding AG-1 flash unit (and locate or improvise a 12V battery for it) and open up my stash of bulbs?
 

JPD

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It might be X sync after all. Every camera I've had that had a retrofitted PC contact had X. One of them was a Rolleicord II, type 3 from 1938, and the owner even had the Triotar lens coated. Rollei-Service here in Sweden even offered to add sync to pre-war cameras as late as the 1990's.
 
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Donald Qualls

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I haven't managed to test it yet -- but I found my little Agfa Tully flash (very compact BC unit, 50mm folding reflector for AG-1), now I need to improvise a battery (original is a fattish 15V with end terminals, should be a 504 which has been obsolete for decades -- I'm thinking maybe a stack of lithium coin cells in a piece of plastic pipe, with contacts in plugs) and possibly replace the capacitor (it worked last time I tried it, but that was near fifteen years ago).

Because of the way this sync triggers (tab is held back by the cocking lever, releases at the start of lever movement, which provides delay before the shutter actually fires) I think it unlikely this is X. Given the cost of electronic flashes, I'm not sure why a retrofit from, say, 1948 would be X sync; you'd get good exposures only on slow speeds (below 1/50, about) with a bulb, and at 500 you'd be well into closing before the light came up. If the retrofit was done as late as the mid-1960s (when strobe prices came down from astronomical to merely professional), X would make more sense, but again, with the way this trigger works, I don't believe it's X.

The camera is loaded now, but when I finish the roll, I'll try to remember to take a few cell phone shots of the sync in cocked, partially released, and fully released -- or else do so while finishing this first test roll.

EDIT: Here's a photo I found on the web of a Weltini with f/2 Xenon like mine; it as the little plated tab that the cocking lever pushes back (by the 50 and 100 speeds, bright plated piece). That connects internally with the bare metal piece behind the shutter housing, just at the top end of the focus cam/helicoid cover, and is spring loaded so that it pushes back 2-3 mm when the shutter is cocked, and releases as soon as the cocking lever starts to move. The shutter actually fires when the lever gets to about where the 10 is in this photo -- so assuming the tab is related to sync (I can't see a socket in this photo, it may be in the housing where we can't see it, instead of in an extension like mine), it pretty well has to have the M prefire.
 
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JPD

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EDIT: Here's a photo I found on the web of a Weltini with f/2 Xenon like mine; it as the little plated tab that the cocking lever pushes back (by the 50 and 100 speeds, bright plated piece). That connects internally with the bare metal piece behind the shutter housing, just at the top end of the focus cam/helicoid cover, and is spring loaded so that it pushes back 2-3 mm when the shutter is cocked, and releases as soon as the cocking lever starts to move. The shutter actually fires when the lever gets to about where the 10 is in this photo -- so assuming the tab is related to sync (I can't see a socket in this photo, it may be in the housing where we can't see it, instead of in an extension like mine), it pretty well has to have the M prefire.

I wonder if that tab is there for the selftimer? On the Compur shutters with selftimers there is a button you push back so you can move the cocking lever a bit more to cock the selftimer. When you have fired the shutter the button moves back into position. On the Weltini the focus scale is in the way, so that tab could be a modification of the selftimer button. Not all Weltinis have this tab, but the camera pictured in the Welta 1939 catalogue has it., and none of the cameras they made back then had flash sync.
 
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Donald Qualls

Donald Qualls

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No, not a self timer. As far as I can tell, this shutter doesn't have a self timer; the tab only moves 2-3 mm, and it moves very freely over that distance against a fairly weak spring. There is no catch or wind-up as it moves. The shutter won't cock without pushing the tab to near the limit of its travel. Also, there's no cable release socket on this shutter, though other Weltinis I've seen pictured have such a socket exactly where this PC socket extension comes out (same notch in the focus cam shield). I have that self-timer catch on the Compur-Rapid on my Super Ikonta B (early post-War model, its flash sync is most likely a retrofit as well) -- it doesn't move the same way this tab does.

Found a lens cap that fits, and tested with the release at the shutter (so as not to lock the body release -- this would be where I'd override to make an intentional double exposure, too); that tab does not enable a self-timer; it doesn't move the correct direction either from its rest position or when pushed back by the cocking lever.
 

JPD

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This post-war East German Welti I and Ic with Vebur shutter has this tab as well: https://www.ebay.de/itm/274370727055 The versions with the Cludor shutter do not.

Welti I with Vebur: https://www.ebay.de/itm/274529976408
With Cludor: https://www.ebay.de/itm/224179606002

These cameras have X sync only.

I found manuals for the Welti and Weltini, but neither of the cameras in the manuals have this tab.

The Weltaflex TLR has it as well: https://www.ebay.de/itm/193473143073 (The symbols on the shutter next to it are just the Pentacon/Ernemann Tower and the East German quality symbol).
 
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