Watercolor paper for testing?

[ChristopherCoy]

I bought a pack of Bergger COT-320 from B&S, but being this will be my first time trying cyanotypes, I also ordered a pack of Strathmore watercolor paper from Amazon for testing.

I'm sure this isn't ideal, but it should allow me to test exposures without wasting the good stuff, shouldn't it?

 

[Bob Carnie]

Bad Idea... test with the paper you are going to use.... really bad idea in fact

 

[ChristopherCoy]

Bad Idea... test with the paper you are going to use.... really bad idea in fact

Dang.

But I fully trust your advice.

 

[jeffreyg]

I strongly agree with Bob Carnie. If you are printing 4x5's cut the C0T paper in half assuming you bought 8x10 or 11x14 to use for testing. I use Arches Platine from Bostick and Sullivan that comes a little larger than 11x14. I cut it back to 11x14 and for testing I cut that in half. My pt/pd prints are 4x5, 7x7 . If I am going to go up to 10x10 they still fit. Get a small set of watercolor paints and try you skill at that. You may be pleasantly surprised and have two talents. Nothing has to be wasted.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

http://www.sculptureandphotography.com/

 

[jim10219]

It'll get you some ballpark figures. Like it might tell you if your exposure times will be in the two minute range or ten minute range (basically your testing the strength of your exposure light). And that might make further tests later on a bit quicker, since you'll have a ballpark idea of the range of times you'll be looking to test. But it won't do much more than that.

Different papers have different absorption properties and will absorb more or less sensitizer. They also have different acidity levels, which will effect how the chemistry reacts. So really, you're best bet is to use the actual paper you'll be using for your final prints.

If you want to save money on paper while running tests, use smaller sheets or cut the sheets down into strips after sensitizing them, before exposure.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

Wow. That Bergger paper really wasn't what I was expecting. It's "paper" but it feels more like a thick card stock.

I just cut up two sheets into 2"x10" test strips.

 

[jeffreyg]

I don't know abouth COT but with the Arches there is a specific side to coat. When you cut make sure to mark with a pencil which side to coat.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

I don't know abouth COT but with the Arches there is a specific side to coat. When you cut make sure to mark with a pencil which side to coat.

This one seems to have a smooth side and a rough side. The rough side is visible as well.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

The Bergger COT320 is a great paper. The two sides are somewhat distinct - the "good" side feels smoother, but you do have to pay attention. Once you've gone through that batch, I'd recommend getting some Hahnemuhle Platinum Rag (despite the word Platinum in the title, it's an all-purpose alt-process paper). It does have two sides, but they're ALMOST interchangeable.

I'd recommend doing some larger pieces for your test strips, because coating a 2" wide strip is difficult without wasting a lot of chemistry and making a mess. Take your 8x10 paper and cut it in half or quarters, but not smaller.

 

[Bob Carnie]

finding the right side is important there may be watermarks on the paper .. Arches for sure, COT 320 not sure, Hahnemuhle Platinum Rag both sides are good, I use Hahnemuhle Rag for all my work these days.

 

[jeffreyg]

I make the same mix for tests as for the definitive print. Cutting back because you are not using a full size print and piece of paper will give you inconsistent results. Why not make a digital "proof" in the tones of what a final print would look like. Sit on it for a few days to be sure you want to go forward with the other process. As is said "measure twice and cut once".

 

[ChristopherCoy]

I make the same mix for tests as for the definitive print. Cutting back because you are not using a full size print and piece of paper will give you inconsistent results. Why not make a digital "proof" in the tones of what a final print would look like. Sit on it for a few days to be sure you want to go forward with the other process. As is said "measure twice and cut once".

What difference would a digital proof make, if I still have to waste 5 sheets of paper to achieve them, or any other varient of them?

 

[Bob Carnie]

I make the same mix for tests as for the definitive print. Cutting back because you are not using a full size print and piece of paper will give you inconsistent results. Why not make a digital "proof" in the tones of what a final print would look like. Sit on it for a few days to be sure you want to go forward with the other process. As is said "measure twice and cut once".

I agree, what I do in my space is if I am coating , I will do more than one image at a time, and if I am not sure of the density I will coat a full sheet as if it was final .. then I will cut this one sheet into three or four strips and use them for test exposures by placing the negs over top, this way I assure I have the right mix and will allow me to see
a bunch of different images before I go to final.
I do not see what a digital proof will do for you but I agree on using the right chemical mixture on a test as final print

 

[eli griggs]

Whatever paper you end up using, see if there is an artist supply for watercolour papers, printing prints etc, in your area.

Also, call or stop by some of the artist studios/galleries and ask if they have a press/studio rental in their studio. If they do, it'll be a good chance they have papers for their own work or for selling to other printmakers, ie woodcut artist, etchers, lithographic, etc. You're mainly looking for a Relief Press Studio, so be sure when asking for tips about whom may have a rental press, to include that description in your inquiry.

Part of the reason to go to the trouble of this, is that Artists very often order papers in in traditional sizes, such as 23x30in, 30x40in, etc, and with a little care, these 100% rag papers can easily be torn down to smaller sizes, and can save quite a bit of money by no being "confectioned".

I know this because this is the way I've been buying my WC papers and Printing papers for over three decades now.

An example from the last time I bought a pack of 25 20x30 sheets of Arches 300lb. paper, a thick paper like card stock, plus. (Buying like this save a great deal of money or it used to, plus, I believe mills are now selling 5 and ten packs of paper, which should still offer some savings, long term.).

A single sheet from Binders ran about Plus $8 to about $10, or so, while a packet of 20 smaller sheets, similar in size to the 11x14, could cost much more than a few sheets of the 'full sized paper, so, if you want to get the best bang for your money, do the math on any paper you're thinking about buying in smaller sheets vs. the cost of buying full sheets and tearing them yourself.

I can tell you exactly how to tear these smaller thicknesses papers without much bother, but BE AWARE, and find out if the paper you are buying, the papers others are recommending, are "Waterleaf" or "Sized' papers.

Sized papers have a lot of starch in them to control the flow of fluids, into the body of the paper, as well as it's spreading on top of the paper.

Waterleaf papers have NO SIZING, and so a drop of fluid will spread far out, in a blob as the paper adsorbs it, like a drop of water on bathroom or WC, (water closet) paper.

It may be that you already know this stuff, so forgive me but some of our readers may no, and no one should have to go through these decisions without first knowing what to look for, and spending limited dollars on what they can ill afford to "pay their dues' for, and the loss of resources that is part of the learning process, on your own.

i hope this helps.

 

[lifted spirit]

I actually use Canson XL for test paper when trying out a new process, but it's more so to test the entire process as well as the digital negative creation. I use a Canon printer, so it's a bit different than the Epsons most everyone else uses.

Once I have what I feel is the right curve of the negative, I'll create new exposure wedge tests, etc for the given paper I'm doing "final prints" with and do a test or two with that paper.

 

[jeffreyg]

I was suggesting a digital proof to see if the image and composition was worth going forward with. Somewhat like revisiting negatives or prints to see if there was a change in how they could be done. My impression was that the OP was trying to cut costs so the approach I suggested might be helpful in doing so. If you are making digital negatives it is easy enough to reverse and have a guide. If after making my pt/pd print I see that changes need to be made I make a new negative and start over. I can also make a digital print as another medium. If I am printing from film it is another story. I feel the three (silver-gelatin, pt/pd and ink) are different mediums and I label them as such. Once we are back to "normal" my postponed exhibition will have images of all three genres.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

http://www.sculptureandphotography.com/

 

[ChristopherCoy]

eww.... this cheap watercolor paper is not what I expected it to be. Next to the Bergger paper, it feels like 60 grit sandpaper.

I might use it for just to coat and get the feel for exposing, but I'll use the actual paper I'll print on for test prints.

 

[removed account4]

Christopher

I don't bother with nice watercolor papers ( although I have used platinum rag and it is beautiful stuff ! (a bit $$ though ) ) what I do
most all my cyanotypes on is a few different papers, .. they are cheep and easy to find. the first one is Bristol (strathmore ) comes in a pad and is super cheep and nice, 2nd is #10 envelopes, yea the stuff you find at the staples, super cheep a box costs like nothing, and they are the beautiful aspect ratio, 3rd is non coated ( virgin ) butcher/craft paper, its white and I was gifted a bunch years ago and I haven't been able to use it all up ( its great for silver gelatin coating too ). Alex art supply on amazon and through Wally's sell something like by the roll, and ULine also sells something like it, but its a big roll... and lastly, another pad, called Bordon Riley and I use the velum surface. none cost very much money and they are plentful !
have fun sun printing

 

[eli griggs]

eww.... this cheap watercolor paper is not what I expected it to be. Next to the Bergger paper, it feels like 60 grit sandpaper.

I might use it for just to coat and get the feel for exposing, but I'll use the actual paper I'll print on for test prints.

If you want a smooth surface, you want to ask for 'hot' pressed wc papers, 'cold' press is rough and 'not' is even rougher still.

You also need to know what weight your papers is, in America, in # or Pounds and it's a quick google to find the same weight in grams per cm. IIRC.

Basic wc papers and many printing papers will be found at 90#, 140#, and 300#. the lighter the papers, and we are speaking about sized papers here, the more it will buckle when wet, 6though the 300# class of papers are very stiff, in less than full 'Imperial' Sheets, 22in. x 30in. (they also soak up lots of paint or inks) and I do no know enough about printing with today's specialized printers and papers to say if these papers can be printed wet or no.

Hahnemule, "Copperplate" is considered a good, popular press printer's paper, so try "Graphic Chemical and Ink" as they have a very good selection of printing papers, last I checked, 100% high alpha cullulose.

Cheers

 

[fgorga]

I bought a pack of Bergger COT-320 from B&S, but being this will be my first time trying cyanotypes, I also ordered a pack of Strathmore watercolor paper from Amazon for testing.

I'm sure this isn't ideal, but it should allow me to test exposures without wasting the good stuff, shouldn't it?

Christopher,

I agree with the other responses regarding making test prints on the same paper you intend to use for final prints.

I also find that if you are willing to cut up large sheets of paper that you can often (but not always) save significant money by buying the large sheets. This is also especially true when compared to buying papers in pads vs. loose sheets.

As for papers, I'll recommend the Stonehenge line of printmaking papers. These are very reasonably priced, 100% cotton papers.

The "regular" Stonehenge (250 gsm) comes in lots of colors. The warm white is my favorite. It is a bit lighter weight than the Bergger Cot320 or many of the watercolor papers which tend to run about 300 gsm, but it is still pretty "hefty".

Stonehenge Light (referring to its weight, at 135 gsm, not it color) is, in my view an often overlooked, but very useful and reasonably priced paper. It is only available in one shade of "natural" white and it is also 100% cotton. Its weight is very similar to Platine at about one-third the price or less (depending on if you buy pads or large sheets).

Lastly, if you are looking for keeping costs as low as possible (as I often need to do when doing sunprints with kids) Strathmore 400 drawing paper works well. I usually add a little Tween 20 in the mix when coating this paper, but it works without the surfactant too.. It is not made of cotton and it is distinctly warm in tone but still very nice.

Regards,

--- Frank