Vote: Xtol or Eco Pro LegacyPro Film Developer

pentaxuser · Oct 24, 2020

peterlat said:
I bought some EcoPro a while back when I couldn’t find any Xtol, and it’s great. I didn’t do a side-by-side comparison with Xtol-developed negatives (i.e., same scene, same light, same exposure and development), but the EcoPro worked perfectly, and I can’t tell the difference. I checked prices recently, and one of the big retailers (B&H? Adorama?) charged $2-3 more for the EcoPro than for Xtol. Weird.

I wonder who makes EcoPro and seemingly to the same effect as Xtol? Is it in fact the same stuff? It would sound like it is. If there have been no reports of EcoPro giving problems then it is a simple case of deciding whether the apparent peace of mind that EcoPro might give compared to the recent Xtol concerns raised here on Photrio is worth the $2-3 more, isn't it?

Maybe the Xtol problem has been "laid to bed" ? Only you can decide if that is the way you feel.

Any posts about developers other than the 2 you mention is irrelevant for you, isn't it? As you believe the 2 are equal in all but prlce then it comes full circle to deciding on my question in the first paragraph above, doesn't it?

pentaxuser

Donald Qualls · Oct 24, 2020

If, as you suggest, Eco Pro is "the same stuff" as Xtol, perhaps even mixed and packaged by the same contractor (how could we check this?), what reason could there be for it not having the same problems at roughly the same time as genuine Xtol?

Whether other developers are irrelevant to the OP is, well, irrelevant for this thread -- the question was and is about Xtol vs. Eco Pro. As a recent Xtol user, that question is of interest to me, too -- and as a sometime user of a number of other developers from coffee to Diafine, those aren't in question here.

m00dawg · Feb 5, 2021

I know I'm resurrecting an old-ish post but curious if anyone has changed their minds given the current "trade issue". I've been trying to get my hands on a good batch but can't seem to find any. I've had 3 bad bags so far (source: https://imaging.kodakalaris.com/photographers-photo-printing/resources/chem-tech-info). Sounds like mid Feb is when we can get some new stuff.

I'm all out of XTOL unless I decide to start one-shotting my replenished solution, which I really don't want to do. Thinking about Eco Pro just for the time being so I have _something_ over nothing. I've heard the new supplier may be the same supplier as with their C-41 chemicals so hoping that is a good sign.

pentaxuser · Feb 5, 2021

We appear to be back to the same question I posed in #51 about whether Legacy Eco Pro is the same stuff as Xtol. If it is then presumably if the Xtol problems are now resolved and it is now as cheap then that covers your decision making process with regard to Xtol quality, I hope. That leaves supply and price. If you are now out of Xtol and can't wait until mid February then is there still Legacy Eco Pro still available? If there is then you may have to buy it at least for the interim period. If it is the same stuff and is still more expensive then check out Foma's equivalent to see if that works our more expensive. It may do and unless some U.S. stockist has the Foma product then the wait period may rule it out

The key question with reference to Xtol quality v Eco Pro remains: Is it the same stuff?

I have no idea how this can be established unfortunately. Donald Qualls doesn't think this can be done based on his #52 and he may well be right

I can only hope that my posing of what I see to be straightforward questions to help you to decide does not upset Donald again but they seemed relevant last time so I am simply posing them again in an attempt to help you reach a decision

pentaxuser

Andrew O'Neill · Feb 5, 2021

As I said earlier. Xtol.

m00dawg · Feb 5, 2021

Have you tried both, Andrew?

Sirius Glass · Feb 5, 2021

XTOL and the answer is no.

reddesert · Feb 5, 2021

pentaxuser said:
We appear to be back to the same question I posed in #51 about whether Legacy Eco Pro is the same stuff as Xtol. If it is then presumably if the Xtol problems are now resolved and it is now as cheap then that covers your decision making process with regard to Xtol quality, I hope. That leaves supply and price. If you are now out of Xtol and can't wait until mid February then is there still Legacy Eco Pro still available? If there is then you may have to buy it at least for the interim period. If it is the same stuff and is still more expensive then check out Foma's equivalent to see if that works our more expensive. It may do and unless some U.S. stockist has the Foma product then the wait period may rule it out

The key question with reference to Xtol quality v Eco Pro remains: Is it the same stuff?

I have no idea how this can be established unfortunately. Donald Qualls doesn't think this can be done based on his #52 and he may well be right

I can only hope that my posing of what I see to be straightforward questions to help you to decide does not upset Donald again but they seemed relevant last time so I am simply posing them again in an attempt to help you reach a decision

pentaxuser

The Eco Pro photo chemicals are, as far as we know, distributed by Freestyle and made by a company in Michigan that either used to be Unicolor, or is staffed by people who worked for Unicolor. All of this has been posted before. Whether they actually synthesize any chemicals there, or are designing the developer and mixing and packaging it from commercial chemicals, is both unknowable and immaterial.

The Eco Pro developer is an ascorbic acid developer that appears to have been designed to work like Xtol and people who have used it (including me, but I haven't done any formal tests) have been generally satisfied with using it like Xtol.

Nobody can tell you whether Eco Pro is the "same stuff" as Xtol, so there is no point in repeatedly asking the question. It almost certainly isn't made from exactly the same chemical stocks from the same supply houses and packaged in the same place with the same paper bags.

relistan · Feb 5, 2021

ADOX are apparently going to do an XTOL competitor. When it's available, that's where my money will go.

m00dawg · Feb 5, 2021

Indeed those last few points are the conclusions I have drawn. I didn't mean to get into a religious war over which is ultimately better - clearly there's some devout XTOL folks here and, but I'm also trying to be practical. XTOL is great when it's not out of stock due to recalls. If the alternatives are close, I think it's the better choice over completely switching developers. I reached out to Sino Promise (the new supplier) again to see if there is an update on the recall. I haven't heard back so I think best estimates are still mid-Feb.

That's close! But in the meantime, I think I might grab a bag of the Eco Pro just to see what it's about. I am also interested in Adox's solution, relistan. CHS ii is my fav 100 speed sheet film and I ADORE their MCC papers! I think the quality would be there, although being in the US, once Kodak sorts out their XTOL woes, it might be a hard sell due to shipping. I usually order from FotoImpex about once a year to buy some Adox and Rollei stuff and that ends up working well. So that is an option if/when they release their own XTOL-like product.

relistan · Feb 5, 2021

m00dawg said:
I am also interested in Adox's solution, relistan. CHS ii is my fav 100 speed sheet film and I ADORE their MCC papers! I think the quality would be there, although being in the US, once Kodak sorts out their XTOL woes, it might be a hard sell due to shipping. I usually order from FotoImpex about once a year to buy some Adox and Rollei stuff and that ends up working well. So that is an option if/when they release their own XTOL-like product.

I expect that given the good relationship betwen ADOX and Freestyle, that they will carry it when it's available. Then you will have 3 choices. I also ordered from Fotoimpex a bunch of times when I lived in the US and that does work pretty well, too.

BradS · Feb 5, 2021

HC-110

mshchem · Feb 5, 2021

Sirius Glass said:
XTOL and the answer is no.

The XTOL I have in cool storage I bought when Tetenal announced that it was insolvent. I love that XTOL, I have at least 15 packages. I wouldn't touch anything from Sino - Kodak until I could be sure. I have some of the Eco Pro stuff someone gave me. I've never tried it, have no plans to, but I'm sure it would work.

mshchem · Feb 5, 2021

BradS said:
HC-110

The original stuff. Smelled like my elementary school music teacher's breath.

pentaxuser · Feb 5, 2021

Yes I too learned a lot asI feel m00dawg did from #58 and #59 and thanks for that information I was simply pointing out the kind of questions that I felt m00dawg needed to know the answer to.The tetchiness that seems to have occurred as a result of me posing the same questions again is puzzling but so be it

pentaxuser

relistan · Feb 6, 2021

While we’re muddying the waters, if you are looking for something to hold over until mid Feb, Fomadon Excel is available in 1L packs and basically works just like XTOL. I’ve used both.

EDIT: hmm looks unavailable at common US places until mid Feb!

Adrian Bacon · Feb 6, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
That works fine if your working bottle is filled exactly to cap level. If, like me, you're using commercially made 2L bottles for your working solutions, and mixed to 2L because it was easy and I was diluting from 4L because I didn't have a 5L mixing vessel -- that leaves an airspace. I could, I suppose, add enough replenisher to bring the contents up to the cap, but it simply hadn't occurred to me.

Also, I'd initially read the comment I replied to to suggest replenishing in the tank rather than replenishing the working solution storage bottle before pouring back the tank contents.

I replenish the working solution storage bottle, then pour in the just used developer until I can’t pour in any more then discard the leftover into my “used developer” bottle.

GarageBoy · Feb 6, 2021

How similiyus fomadon excel? Times are different?

Wallendo · Mar 1, 2021

For what it is worth, the bag of Eco Pro I mixed today has a website URL printed on it: www. Kentmereusa.com. That URL now links to an oriental website I can’t read.

Donald Qualls · Mar 2, 2021

Hmm. Whatever that site is, it's pretty clear it's nothing to do with Kentmere photographic products.

MattKing · Mar 2, 2021

I think those are Chinese characters that mean "null reference".
That is the old website address for the old Kentmere distribution in the USA - before Harmann bought Kentmere.

Donald Qualls · Mar 2, 2021

Okay, so if LegacyPro products were made by Kentmere before the Ilford, does that mean some division of Harman Technologies is now making and selling LegacyPro and EcoPro developers?

Andrew O'Neill · Mar 2, 2021

m00dawg said:
Have you tried both, Andrew?

No. Does that disqualify me?

urnem57 · Mar 2, 2021

I have used quite a few bags of both Eco Pro & Legacy Pro with no problems other than some chunks that had to be mashed up. Filter it. As for Xtol.....well 4 bags from 2 different retailers and both were bad. I found this out after ruining a few sheets with thin negatives. I even bought some D76 in the interim and it too was bad! You’ve been warned - test these chemicals before you use them. Apparently I’m not the first guy to have these problems. Was told “Replacements were being shipped mid-February” Don’t know what to think about this any more. I was under the impression that Freestyle makes and/or markets these chemicals.

MattKing · Mar 2, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
Okay, so if LegacyPro products were made by Kentmere before the Ilford, does that mean some division of Harman Technologies is now making and selling LegacyPro and EcoPro developers?

Harman has no chemical manufacturing capacity.
And they were forced to shut down Kentmere's manufacturing plant after they bought it, due to environmental issues.
I expect that website information is essentially a "legacy" (pun intended) of a pre-existing distribution arrangement that is no longer in place, and needs to be updated on the packaging.
If you search LegacyPro products through Google, you will find a link to FS Distribution, which I believe to be Freestyle's distribution arm. This page tells you a fair bit about how Freestyle sources (not manufactures) product, but it isn't exactly up-to-date (Efke?): http://www.fsdistribution.biz/about_fsd.php

Vote: Xtol or Eco Pro LegacyPro Film Developer

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