Vote: Xtol or Eco Pro LegacyPro Film Developer

[peterlat]

I bought some EcoPro a while back when I couldn’t find any Xtol, and it’s great. I didn’t do a side-by-side comparison with Xtol-developed negatives (i.e., same scene, same light, same exposure and development), but the EcoPro worked perfectly, and I can’t tell the difference. I checked prices recently, and one of the big retailers (B&H? Adorama?) charged $2-3 more for the EcoPro than for Xtol. Weird.

 

[craigclu]

Everything I've read suggests it's a 100% replacement -- even to being usable in self-replenishment at the same rate. We'll expect to hear from you after you try it, of course...

Back when deliveries were sporadic, I checked the Legacy Pro vs Kodak's Xtol. I could measure no difference via densitometer. Long haul consistencies might prove different but I feel fine interchanging them. My routine is to mix the 5L batches to 1 gallon and both seemed to go into solution equally, too.

 

[Donald Qualls]

My routine is to mix the 5L batches to 1 gallon and both seemed to go into solution equally, too.

Just to understand -- you're running your Xtol/Eco Pro at 25%+ above standard strength? Replenished/stock or diluted?

 

[craigclu]

Just to understand -- you're running your Xtol/Eco Pro at 25%+ above standard strength? Replenished/stock or diluted?

I place the dry ingredients in a 1 gallon glass thumb jug, fill to the 1 gallon mark with warm water and roll the jug back and forth. It leaves little chance for aeration and avoids the cavitation of my magnetic stirring rig (so much volume requires pretty aggressive magnet action). It all goes into solution and I decant to smaller glass containers. Originally, I tried it to see if it would work, back in the era of "sudden failure" issues, thinking that a higher concentration stock would perhaps be more stable. It turned out to be a handier prep for me and worked well in practice so I just settled into the habit. I keep a small copy of the attached grid posted in the darkroom and it's quite easy to mix the adjusted ratios for the dilution I'm after.

 

[Вormental_old]

Neat. I am not that worried about sudden death or excessive aeration, but a gallon is much easier to store than 5L. Since I'm replenishing, I realized that I simply cannot use up all 5L of replenisher quickly enough. What I started doing is only keeping 3L and discarding the rest right after mixing. It's cheap and environmentally friendly enough to do this. 3L is good for three months, and I like having a fresh batch every three months.

 

[Donald Qualls]

I place the dry ingredients in a 1 gallon glass thumb jug, fill to the 1 gallon mark with warm water and roll the jug back and forth. It leaves little chance for aeration and avoids the cavitation of my magnetic stirring rig (so much volume requires pretty aggressive magnet action). It all goes into solution and I decant to smaller glass containers. Originally, I tried it to see if it would work, back in the era of "sudden failure" issues, thinking that a higher concentration stock would perhaps be more stable. It turned out to be a handier prep for me and worked well in practice so I just settled into the habit. I keep a small copy of the attached grid posted in the darkroom and it's quite easy to mix the adjusted ratios for the dilution I'm after.

Okay, you're using one-shot diluted developer, and just storing over-strength stock -- just like I did with a 5 gallon batch of Dektol years ago. I mixed it in half the water. Still got some of it, almost fifteen years later, and it still worked last time I tried some (about four months ago).

Neat. I am not that worried about sudden death or excessive aeration, but a gallon is much easier to store than 5L. Since I'm replenishing, I realized that I simply cannot use up all 5L of replenisher quickly enough. What I started doing is only keeping 3L and discarding the rest right after mixing. It's cheap and environmentally friendly enough to do this. 3L is good for three months, and I like having a fresh batch every three months.

Picture a Studio Ghibli character with a shiver running down its spine... You're throwing away money! To the tune of five bucks or so every three months, I spend more than that on Bugles from the vending at work (and I don't even like Bugles, but sometimes they're out of Fritos), but still. The extra two liters will keep up to six months in full, well-sealed bottles, according to Kodak. Longer than that, according to actual users.

Okay, your money. Your film, too, so I won't fault the decision, but that's a roll of 120!?

 

[Вormental_old]

@Donald Qualls you're right. TBH I predict the 3L of replenisher will last much longer than three months as now I've gotten into C41 and also want to start experimenting with other developers again, namely Rodinal. At 80ml per roll (my average replenishment rate) 3L equals 37 rolls. I shoot about two rolls per week, so that's more than four months before I take color and other B&W developers into account. If you assume that half of my rolls are either color or other B&W developers, we're looking at 3L lasting almost 9 months, and I definitely do not want to exceed Kodak's stated shelf life of 6 months. So... yeah, there's zero chance of me using all 5 liters.

P.S. Previously I've done much more than 2 rolls per week, as I was testing films, fine-tuning dev times, checking cameras off eBay, but as I have settled in my ways, I can't do 6+ rolls a week anymore.

 

[MattKing]

Why don't you just keep it for the 6 months it is rated for, and discard the leftovers then?
Ten rolls a month isn't huge.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Hmm. Well, I guess we'll see how it goes for me. I'm nearly through my backlog (film that was either waiting to be processed when my old darkroom had to become a bathroom again, or that was exposed in the interim and never processed), just a couple rolls of B&W and half a dozen of C-41 (plus two of pre-hiatus Ektachrome 100 -- and another in a camera and two still in the box). That'll bring me down to no more than two rolls a week, because I don't have the time to shoot (working on that).

With my replenisher stored in liter PET bottles, air squeezed out, and caps tight, it ought to keep well. I'll find out how well over the next year or two, I guess.

 

[MattKing]

FWIW, I just picked up two packages of new X-Tol from Beau Photo.
Including our two sales taxes totalling to 12%, they cost me $16.52 CDN a package - not bad for ~ 70 rolls.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Including our two sales taxes totalling to 12%, they cost me $16.52 CDN a package - not bad for ~ 70 rolls.

Yep. Replenished Xtol is one of the most economical developers short of mixing your own from scratch -- I can beat it for cost with Parodinal, but Parodinal gives a very different look. I can use replenished D-23 for less per roll, but I have to mix the initial stock solution and the replenisher -- and Xtol (replenished/stock) gives better film speed than either one.

 

[cjbecker]

Ansco 130, 1-10 for film

 

[peter k.]

Vellll... we haven't finished doing our developing testing of our first batch of Xtol yet, but once we do, we would like to understand the replenishing part of it, in case we decide to continue with Xtol, So could someone please direct me to a source of information for this.

Another question can you also do the same with eco pro legacy?
Thanks p.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Vellll... we haven't finished doing our developing testing of our first batch of Xtol yet, but once we do, we would like to understand the replenishing part of it, in case we decide to continue with Xtol, So could someone please direct me to a source of information for this.

Another question can you also do the same with eco pro legacy?
Thanks p.

While the developer is still in the tank add 70 ml stock XTOL per roll of 120 film or 135-36 to the developer then return the developer in the tank to the replenished bottle until the bottle over flows and discard the remained. Seal off the replenished bottle to keep out the air.

 

[craigclu]

Ansco 130, 1-10 for film

I use a slightly modified version of this for my main paper developer (different restrainer) but haven't thought to give it a shot on film..... I've read of people using it in that manner and perhaps it was from posts of yours. I'm in the midst of a bunch of equipment & lens checks where subtleties of developers won't matter much so I should give it a try.

 

[Donald Qualls]

While the developer is still in the tank add 70 ml stock XTOL per roll of 120 film or 135-36 to the developer then return the developer in the tank to the replenished bottle until the bottle over flows and discard the remained. Seal off the replenished bottle to keep out the air.

Because of the need for timing of the development, I modify this process (and it's not a case of Sirius following Kodak's instructions and me not -- Kodak says how much to replenish, not exactly how). I pour out the developer on time, back into the graduate in which I measured the volume for the process (290 ml for 35mm, for instance). I then pour off a portion of that into a smaller graduate (a dedicated kitchen measuring cup, in this case, since high precision isn't required), add the (precisely measured) replenisher to the main graduate, then return solution from the temporary graduate up to the original volume before discarding the remainder. The measured, replenished working solution then goes back into the bottle (2L size, in my case, because I have a developing tank that takes 1.6L), air squeezed out and tightly capped.

Same result, easier logistics.

 

[Auer]

What ya all use for stop with Eco-pro? Water?

 

[Donald Qualls]

I use regular indicator stop bath with my Xtol. If you use alkaline fixer, or a carbonate based developer, you might reconsider that, but acid stop bath has been a standard for a hundred years for good reason.

 

[Вormental_old]

Same result, easier logistics.

I'm sensing a misunderstanding here... What you've described sounds much more complicated than SG's approach. Why not just add 70ml straight to the working bottle while your film is cooking in the tank?

 

[Donald Qualls]

I'm sensing a misunderstanding here... What you've described sounds much more complicated than SG's approach. Why not just add 70ml straight to the working bottle while your film is cooking in the tank?

That works fine if your working bottle is filled exactly to cap level. If, like me, you're using commercially made 2L bottles for your working solutions, and mixed to 2L because it was easy and I was diluting from 4L because I didn't have a 5L mixing vessel -- that leaves an airspace. I could, I suppose, add enough replenisher to bring the contents up to the cap, but it simply hadn't occurred to me.

Also, I'd initially read the comment I replied to to suggest replenishing in the tank rather than replenishing the working solution storage bottle before pouring back the tank contents.

 

[btaylor]

Yea, that's what I did when I was running T-Max RS or RA4 replenished. Before I poured the dev back into the bottle I would add the required replenishment amount, then pour in the dev until the bottle was full, discarding the rest. Simple.

 

[MattKing]

I could, I suppose, add enough replenisher to bring the contents up to the cap,

It is far simpler to add recently used working solution to bring the contents up to the cap, and then discard the rest.
You should expect the amount that ends up being discarded to vary slightly each time, due to absorption and, if you pre-rinse, dilution.
The thing to standardize is the air space.

 

[Sirius Glass]

What ya all use for stop with Eco-pro? Water?

Stop bath with indicator of any brand because we all know that stop bath with indicator is just so damned expensive. Except when using pyro that uses water as the stop bath.

 

[Donald Qualls]

It is far simpler to add recently used working solution to bring the contents up to the cap, and then discard the rest.
You should expect the amount that ends up being discarded to vary slightly each time, due to absorption and, if you pre-rinse, dilution.
The thing to standardize is the air space.

What I've been doing has the same effect -- maintaining constant volume of the working solution. But on thinking about it, I agree, it would be simpler to let the storage bottle get completely full and use overflow to manage volume.

 

[removed account4]

Ansco 130, 1-10 for film

!!!

I use a slightly modified version of this for my main paper developer (different restrainer) but haven't thought to give it a shot on film..... I've read of people using it in that manner and perhaps it was from posts of yours. I'm in the midst of a bunch of equipment & lens checks where subtleties of developers won't matter much so I should give it a try.

hey craig
I've been using a130 for film since about 2000, .. thought it was my great white whale ( GAF Universal )...
its great stuff !