Vote: Xtol or Eco Pro LegacyPro Film Developer

peter k. · Oct 18, 2020

Well we just stated using Xtop and like it, but the first order of Xtol we received had to be replaced, and recently we have also had to request a replacement on another Kodak issue with its D-76, So the old Kodak products don't seem to be doing so well with their new suppliers. It well may be just a a new leaning curve for them, and will quickly get back into normalcy.
What are your thoughts?

Donald Qualls · Oct 18, 2020

Given:

Kodak has seemingly correct issues as they've come up, promptly and without making affected users jump through hoops,
there's little if any price difference between the two ($1 on Freestyle), and
LegacyPro likely doesn't have the resources that even post-reorganization Kodak Alaris does to back up their products,

I'm inclined to stick with the Kodak product. If I were going to stop, I'd probably switch to Mytol and try to find iron-free photo grade chemicals to mix it from (I mix solutions with RODI water at least as pure as commercial distilled, so the only source of iron or copper is the chemicals I mix in). Given that's likely to cost a bit in the size orders I could manage, I'm probably ahead, cost-wise, to stick with Kodak.

Sirius Glass · Oct 18, 2020

XTOL forever!

138S · Oct 18, 2020

I will stay with Xtol. We always have doubts for the shelf life, and personally I know very well how Xtol behaves when I mix the stock with distilled water.

https://healthprofessions.udmercy.edu/academics/na/agm/phenvitc.htm
(glass bottles recommended in that article, still some plastic bottles (soda, soft drinks) are also excellent.

Anyway Mytol and Instant Mytol can be excellent choices, mixing just before usage makes it a great choice. Some ingredients can be pre-mixed, specially phenidone to make it easy to dose, or the salts for convenience, so to make the soup we can mix in water the dry ascorbic, the phenidone solution and a concentrate with salts, in that way we overcome the potential shelf life issues of non industrial products.

I'd like to try this very simple thing from LR Kalajainen:

phenidone: 0.04g
ascorbic acid: 4g
sodium carbonate (monohydrate): 6g
water to make: 1000ml

removed account4 · Oct 18, 2020

I don't suggest using Xtol, I've had too much trouble with it ( years trying to get it to work right ) to give it a good review, I haven't ever used LegacyPro so I can't suggest using that--- instead, I'd recommend sprint film developer. you can get it directly from them (or maybe someplace local to you), they have never had trouble with their product &c. it comes in a variety of sizes a big cube, 1 smaller cube or 1L bottles. I've been using this developer on and off since 1980, its great stuff (still use their rapid fix)..

Andrew O'Neill · Oct 18, 2020

Xtol.

Paul Howell · Oct 18, 2020

I use Legacy Pro D76 clone and have used Ultrafines clone D76 with good results, price is good, shipping is fast, gallon size, and with MF and LF MF grain is not a issue, I find that D76 holds shadows well, I don't replenish and dump what ever is left after 6 to 7 months. For 35mm I use MCM 100.

Donald Qualls · Oct 18, 2020

jnantz said:
I'd recommend sprint film developer.

Paul Howell said:
I use Legacy Pro D76 clone and have used Ultrafines clone D76

"Is BP or Shell gasoline better for my Fiesta?"

"I've been running truck diesel for years, straight from the Flying J." "I always like the diesel from the Sheetz down the road."

"But gasoline, guys?"

Вormental_old · Oct 19, 2020

I am very happy with Xtol and I'm not going to adjust my habits based on what's on the Internet. When I personally run into any issues, I may consider an Xtol alternative/clone.

warden · Oct 19, 2020

Вormental said:
I am very happy with Xtol and I'm not going to adjust my habits based on what's on the Internet. When I personally run into any issues, I may consider an Xtol alternative/clone.

That's where I'm at with it. I got one of the bad Xtol batches from last year which Alaris replaced with the new packaged kind (both parts in one outer bag). Carefully mixed the new stuff at the recommended temperature and the negatives are quite underdeveloped unfortunately.

removed account4 · Oct 19, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
"Is BP or Shell gasoline better for my Fiesta?"

yea I know .. its just developer
I can't recommend anything I haven't used
and I won't recommend the worst developer I have ever used ..
sprint is a good all purpose developer, liquid, easy to use
so easy that most schools tend to use sprint in their photo programs
seeing its a no-brainer how to use and manipulate it
( lots of data on their website, and they have info on every film currently made, and they have good customer support )

Donald Qualls · Oct 19, 2020

jnantz said:
yea I know .. its just developer.

Sure, but the question was specifically about Xtol vs. EcoPro, and here you and the one other guy are recommending D-76 and Sprint. Just like recommending different brands of diesel to someone who asked which gasoline brand would work best in their Fiesta.

jawarden said:
That's where I'm at with it. I got one of the bad Xtol batches from last year which Alaris replaced with the new packaged kind (both parts in one outer bag). Carefully mixed the new stuff at the recommended temperature and the negatives are quite underdeveloped unfortunately.

You weren't guilty of filtering out the floaty bits like @Bormental did, were you?

warden · Oct 19, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
You weren't guilty of filtering out the floaty bits like @Bormental did, were you?

Nope. I don't know what the problem is, and I always look to blame myself first figuring I screwed something up, but in this case I was even more careful than normal to follow the directions exactly because it was the new packaging. But really now, a ten year old could mix a batch of Xtol and I've had excellent predictable results with it since 2008. I think they have a problem.

Donald Qualls · Oct 19, 2020

Hmmm. And I've got two bags of the new stuff on hand, waiting for my mixed replenisher to run out...

I'll keep my ears open on this.

warden · Oct 19, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
Hmmm. And I've got two bags of the new stuff on hand, waiting for my mixed replenisher to run out...

I'll keep my ears open on this.

Plenty of folks are reporting no problems at all so maybe you'll be fine, but I'd recommend a test roll before developing something important just to be sure. I imagine you were planning that anyway but thought I'd mention it for others.

Wallendo · Oct 19, 2020

XTOL is still backordered at B&H. Like the old CSN&Y song "If you can't be with the one you love ... love the one you're with". I recently picked up a package of Eco Pro, but haven't used it yet. When I use up my current batch of XTOL, I will give the Eco Pro a try.

Donald Qualls · Oct 19, 2020

Wallendo said:
When I use up my current batch of XTOL, I will give the Eco Pro a try.

Everything I've read suggests it's a 100% replacement -- even to being usable in self-replenishment at the same rate. We'll expect to hear from you after you try it, of course...

peter k. · Oct 19, 2020

jawarden said:
. I think they have a problem.

Donald Qualls said:
Hmmm. And I've got two bags of the new stuff on hand, waiting for my mixed replenisher to run out...

I'll keep my ears open on this.

This brings it down to the bottom line... need to make an order today, not critical yet on the Xtol, and have D-76 and Hc110 on hand, but we've been doing developing testing on our new use of Xtol.
So thanks for all the replies, will hold off on a decision on Xtol vrs Eco Pro, but jawarden and Donald, would love to here anymore updates with your experiences in the future.
thanks p.

peter k. · Oct 19, 2020

oh BTW .. Freestyle has Xtol in stock.

Donald Qualls · Oct 19, 2020

peter k. said:
So thanks for all the replies, will hold off on a decision on Xtol vrs Eco Pro, but jawarden and Donald, would love to here anymore updates with your experiences in the future.

Well, don't hold up on my account. I've got about two and a half liters of stock left for replenishment, and with working full time and driving an hour each way five days a week, I don't get to shoot as much as I'd like -- so it'll be well into next year before I need to mix more Xtol. The fact it lasts longer than Kodak's official shelf life will be a factor for me, I'm sure.

peter k. · Oct 19, 2020

No, got it, will hang on and see how the weather or not goes with Xtol before we order it again. But thanks for the heads up reply, and also thanks for contributing to my social security with your full time job. .

Donald Qualls · Oct 19, 2020

You're welcome, though I was supposed to be supporting my Social Security. Another ten years, maybe less (depending how badly my boss gets on my nerves) and I'll be able to photograph full time -- and unable to afford it.

reddesert · Oct 19, 2020

I bought some Legacy Eco Pro this summer when Xtol was out of stock at Freestyle. It works fine. Recommended dev times are the same as Xtol. I didn't do an A/B comparison or densitometry or any of that stuff. I'm not voting, because it's useful to have options.

I live in a place with very hard water so I mixed the stock solution with distilled water, however I diluted it 1:1 with tap water (and did a clip test to make sure it was alive). Diluting it 1:1 brings the water down from very hard to just hard, however occasionally I have something that's probably pipe rust in my tap water and that would be another reason to use distilled. I haven't tested the lifetime of stock solution yet.

I imagine the developing ingredients are pretty similar between different manufacturer's realizations of the same developer (or homebrew) but the chelating agents may not be.

removed account4 · Oct 20, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
Sure, but the question was specifically about Xtol vs. EcoPro, and here you and the one other guy are recommending D-76 and Sprint. Just like recommending different brands of diesel to someone who asked which gasoline brand would work best in their Fiesta

yea I know but I ordered a cheeseburger. as I said I would never recommend XTOL not even to my worse enemy and have never used EcoPro ..

===

peter k. . strike my words, and instead " don't use either of them".

peter k. · Oct 20, 2020

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Vote: Xtol or Eco Pro LegacyPro Film Developer

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