Voigtlander Vito CLR - focus calibration?

[sister8]

Hi,

I'm a novice, let me get that off my chest first. This forum is a scary place for a novice.

I'm living in morocco and my trusty voitlander dynamatic II siezed up after the cold winter (too many problems to fix myself), and i can't send it for repair until i'm back in the UK in june.. no good for me now. However luck placed a VITO CLR into the junk shop round the corner, and so into my hands.

The Vito CLR seems to run well, clickity-clack all sounds good and healthy. Gave it a work out without film over a week and then ran a film though it. Alas, the focus is WAY off. Mid range is ok but long range to infinity is bad.

Is it possible to calibrate the focus? For a novice to do it?! I have no tools other than a swiss army knife and a steady pair of hands. I believe the 'R' in CLR means it's a rangefinder.

Thank you in advance for any help.

 

[fotch]

Hello and welcome to APUG. Novice friendly really. I have no advise on your camera focus issue, hopefully others can help. Good Luck.

 

[sister8]

Thanks fotch. Seems like a great forum. Fingers crossed someone can point me in the right direction.

 

[Brett Rogers]

I have a couple of CLRs but have not worked on them for years. As I recall they are a front cell focus design. My first thought would be that someone has worked on it in the past and has not installed the front cell at the right start point on the helix (if they have one). That or it has been reassembled incorrectly so that the infinity stop is now incorrectly placed.

My first suggestion would be to procure or fabricate a ground glass to fit the film rails and use a loupe with the shutter set to B and a cable release holding the lens open at full aperture so you can actually inspect the focus at the film plane. This will at least give you an indication of how far off it is and a starting point to adjust it towards when you've removed the lens front. The rangefinder may well be off as well and adjusting that involves removing the top cover (very straightforward on this model) to correct it. But maybe it's fine and the lens has just been installed wrong--the RF may fall back into place with the lens focus corrected, you will have to cross that bridge when you get to it.

If your example has the Skopar lens it is worth remedying as it is a reasonable performer. If it has the Lanthar I'm not sure I would bother, personally, but that's up to you. However with your current tool kit that is likely to be the least of your problems. You need some decent screwdrivers and a pair of tweezers at a minimum.
Cheers
Brett

 

[sister8]

Hi Brett,

Thanks for your really helpful advice. I think I understand everything you said. As you rightly say, my limited tool kit is a big problem. I'd say the possibility of finding or even making a usable ground glass is slim to none given my location.

It's a Skopar lens, so worth a try. Given that it's semi-decent otherwise, it might be best if i wait until i'm back in the UK, as i'll probably end up making matters worse attempting it here. Who knows, maybe i'll get lucky and find a working model somewhere else. Morocco is overflowing with european junk.. just got to find that hidden gem!

Thanks again for your help

 

[Peltigera]

Is it the scale on the lens that is wrong, or the rangefinder?

If the front cell has been replaced incorrectly, then the camera will not focus correctly at all. If the camera focusses correctly when focus is set by the scale on the lens but not when focussed by the rangefinder, then the rangefinder needs adjusting. This is easy to check - use the lens scale to focus on something at infinity (which is anything over 50 feet away) and then, without moving the lens, check the rangefinder images. If they do not co-incide, the rangefinder needs adjusting. You need something a bit finer than a Swiss Army Knife for this.

 

[R.Gould]

These Voightlander's are all built on the same chassis as the Vitomatic's and the Vito b, and if I believe are complete lens unit focusing. The whole lens moves in and out to focus as a unit, not just the front cell, and IIRC the rangefinders can be tricky to adjust, to check if it is the rangefinder the trick I use is to focus on a distant object, and if the infinity setting is out then the whole thing is out, Unless the lens has been very badly fiddled with then it would normally be the rangefinder rather than the lens that is out

 

[Brett Rogers]

These Voightlander's are all built on the same chassis as the Vitomatic's and the Vito b, and if I believe are complete lens unit focusing. The whole lens moves in and out to focus as a unit, not just the front cell, and IIRC the rangefinders can be tricky to adjust, to check if it is the rangefinder the trick I use is to focus on a distant object, and if the infinity setting is out then the whole thing is out, Unless the lens has been very badly fiddled with then it would normally be the rangefinder rather than the lens that is out

No, this is not correct: I've just taken a CL out of my cabinet to check, and it is definitely a front cell focus design, as I advised. The CLR is the same but with a coupled rangefinder as well as a light meter. The Vito B and C series are different in many ways. Including the shutter cocking of the C which, unlike the B, is not driven by the film sprocket, and hence, can be fired without being loaded.
Cheers
Brett

 

[R.Gould]

No, this is not correct: I've just taken a CL out of my cabinet to check, and it is definitely a front cell focus design, as I advised. The CLR is the same but with a coupled rangefinder as well as a light meter. The Vito B and C series are different in many ways. Including the shutter cocking of the C which, unlike the B, is not driven by the film sprocket, and hence, can be fired without being loaded.
Cheers
Brett

There must be different versions of the CLR then, I have just checked the two I have and use, and They are both lens unit focusing, the you turn a ring on the front of the camera, and the whole unit slides in and out, as does the lenses on both my 2 vito B's, my Vitomatic and vitomatic 11, they all focus the same way, it looks as if the camera's look as if they are front cell focusing, but upon close inspection they are not

 

[Brett Rogers]

Interesting, I've taken another look at the CL and actually checked the rear lens cell and as the focus ring is actuated it is definitely not moving. There is so little travel of the focus ring (a couple of mm movement at the most I suppose) meaning it could not possibly be a unit focus design. That would necessitate moving the entire lens array a much larger distance away from the film plane, unlike a front cell design, that can focus from three feet or so to infinity merely by moving the front glass a couple of mm. I have a couple of CLRs here too and I'm sure they work the same way as the CL.
Cheers
Brett

 

[R.Gould]

That's is odd, my Clr is certainly unit focussing, mine has the shutter behind the lens so the lens moves but the shutter is stationary, you can't see the rear element, I can only think that maybe I have an earlier one, mine is certainly based on the Vitomatic/vito B, same basic shape, just different features,

 

[Brett Rogers]

Learn something new every day. The shutter of the ones I have seen is in between the lenses, not behind. Not that it is impossible to make a unit focus lens with a between the lens shutter (the later Contaflexes, for instance, do this) but it's obviously easier if the shutter is behind the lens, as with your own type of CLR.
Cheers
Brett

 

[R.Gould]

The Retina.s also have the shutter's in between the lenses, and are unit focusing, as is my Balda Super baldax, the whole unit, lens and shutter moves together as one, works fine,
Richard

 

[Peltigera]

My CLR is significantly bigger than my Vito B (both length and height from base to the bottom of the top plate) so it cannot be based on the same chassis. Mine is certainly front cell focussing - it is the third iteration of the deluxe version but I would expect the entire range to focus the same way.

 

[John Koehrer]

Don't be Skeered, most of us won't bite.

Anyway, You can simulate a ground glass with a frosted tape.
With the tape in place, shutter locked on B and a magnifier of some sort. Adjust for a sharp image on the GG, then check the scale AND the double image in the finder.
If the GG image is good, the RF needs the adjustment.

 

[BigTim]

No, this is not correct: I've just taken a CL out of my cabinet to check, and it is definitely a front cell focus design, as I advised. The CLR is the same but with a coupled rangefinder as well as a light meter. The Vito B and C series are different in many ways. Including the shutter cocking of the C which, unlike the B, is not driven by the film sprocket, and hence, can be fired without being loaded.
Cheers
Brett

Yes. Checking my CLR it is no doubt front cell focusing, as would be expected with any front ring that turns to focus with distance markings. Checking other articles and photos on the Vito B it appears that the earlier, smaller model has the front, smallest ring with aperture values and the middle ring with the distance numbers. All later Vito B's that I can find, including the B with the larger viewfinder and slightly higher body to match, appear to have the smallest front ring with distance values used for focusing, implying, to me at least, that all of the Vitos with the exception of the first, are front cell focusing.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Welcome to APUG, a safe place for questions and advice.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

I have a couple of CLRs but have not worked on them for years. As I recall they are a front cell focus design. My first thought would be that someone has worked on it in the past and has not installed the front cell at the right start point on the helix (if they have one). That or it has been reassembled incorrectly so that the infinity stop is now incorrectly placed.

+1

Exactly my suspicion. Sadly people take things apart and don't make notes and diagrams to help them when it is time to put things back.

Scotch tape makes an excellent temporary focusing screen. A strip of the frosted kind across the center of the focal plane will show you any problem.

Welcome to APUG. While some may occasionally growl we do not bite.

 

[tokam]

About 4 years ago I had the lens on my Vito B apart for cleaning. Mine has the rarer f2.8 Skopar lens with 12 aperture blades, (I know because I cleaned and reassembled them. Won't do that again!).

I used the collimation instructions provided by Mike Elek but this requires a second, preferably SLR, camera. I made a faux ground glass from CD jewel case with Scotch or Magic tape on one side - tape side facing the lens in the film plane. If you cut your piece of plastic to just cover the film rails you can then tape it in place at the ends to the film chamber. Much easier than trying to stretch tape across the film rails without sagging.

With the Vito B there is no rangefinder so I just had to focus at infinity and set the lens focus scale correctly before tightening the screws. You should probably check the infinity focus at the film plane against the lens focus scale before tackling the rangefinder.

Good luck.

 

[tokam]

Holy shoot!! Only just noticed that we are replying to a 2 year old post. Hope that the OP go things sorted.

 

[R.Gould]

No, this is not correct: I've just taken a CL out of my cabinet to check, and it is definitely a front cell focus design, as I advised. The CLR is the same but with a coupled rangefinder as well as a light meter. The Vito B and C series are different in many ways. Including the shutter cocking of the C which, unlike the B, is not driven by the film sprocket, and hence, can be fired without being loaded.
Cheers
Brett

All of these vogitlander's the Vitomatic's Vito B and the VitoCL and BL are all built on the same chassis, and are all complete lens unit focusing, you turn the focus ring and the lens unit moves in and out to focus, I have just checked on each of them that I have in my collection, all the same, It can look as if the front cell only is moving, but it is the complete unit,

 

[3DJack]

I know this is an old thread, but last year (2016) I fixed the focussing on a Vito I (the little folding model) using a focusing screen plucked from a broken 35mm SLR. It's FLAT, tape may not be. The camera had been mucked around with then sold on eBay as "working". Huh! The most difficult part was figuring out how to get to the focus adjustment inside the lens assembly. Your later Vitos will be different. Having worked that out, I held the focussing screen against the film guides in the back of the camera with two rubber bands, set the focusing scale to infinity and aperture to max, pointed the camera (on a tripod) at a distant target, (cell phone masts are good for this!) and adjusted using a loupe to study the image. Resulting film images were sharp.