Vivian Maier ain't naive

[warden]

I cant see much more than well framed, metered and sharp pictures of her self. Was a good photographer with plenty of disposable income and time, when many didnt. The article implies that there is artistic merit in them(?), I dont see that on the other hand I can with Francesca Woodman who use to take pictures of herself.
Vivian pictures for the most part are of a place and time I have no connection to and dont get any from her work, glad it provides for others.

It's such a shame Francesca didn't live to develop her vision further. I liked her stuff too.

For what it's worth I think Maier's self portraits are her least interesting work and was a bit surprised at the decision to make a book about them, but then I haven't seen the book so I can't add more. I do have two other books of her work and recommend them.

 

[cb1]

I think VM's work is a good historical record of NYC and Chicago. I enjoy looking at the photos as some of them tell good stories. I think a good comparison would be Elliot Erwitt's books on Paris and New York. Same type of story telling. But VM's work has the bonus of the self portraits.

 

[removed account4]

But VM's work has the bonus of the self portraits.

AND that it is a woman's perspective !
so much photography is done by men i think it is great its a different POV ...
whether she was using a leica, rollei or argus brick

 

[Helios 1984]

Sure. But German camera industry at the time had the most to choose from.

Good point.

She was a snapshot shooter. Nostalgia is what made her popular now...and lots of shadow selfies.

 

[marcmarc]

I view Maier the same way I view any other photographer - I like some of her pictures and some I don't. 'Nuff said. The thing that irks me about the whole Maier story and the discovery of her work is how it was handled by Maloof and the others who own her negatives. I distinctly remember going to a gallery in Los Angeles that was holding a large exhibit of her work. This was not long after her story came out and was going viral. There were several rooms filled with her pictures including some older color work that looked like faded cheaply printed drugstore prints along side some professionally printed pictures. Overall, I thought most of the work on display (and for sale) wasn't very good and I left feeling that it was all intended to make a quick profit while the hype surrounding her was high. Of course Maloof and the others were always saying that their first priority was to preserve her work and establish her name as an artist. So why then the rush to put up whatever they had printed for sale? What would have been lost if they had waited until all her film was developed and qualified people went through it all to edit out the best examples? After all, Maloof eventually went to great lengths to find a living heir that he could convince to sign away any remaining rights to her work.

I would say overall, compared to todays street photography VM's work stands head and shoulders above. However, the bar is seemingly pretty low as far as standards of excellence in street photography goes.

 

[bernard_L]

Was a good photographer with plenty of disposable income and time, when many didnt.

Where did you learn that from? Or you just made it up from the top of your head? Some more of that internet information stuff? V.M. worked as a nanny for most of her life and died poor with minimal resources allocated by former employers. Time, yes she had, when taking children out for walks.

 

[Arbitrarium]

Why does taking selfies makes you an artist? There a sways of people who seem to spend a lot of time taking pictures of themselves.
I would of thought you would of had to study art to become an artist and have peers confirm . Seems to be a case of I believe for there for I am.
Think Vivian brings hope to many that someone will one day discover there vault photographs and be acclaimed if not in there life time, afterwards.

This is a grammatical car crash.

Is that a Contaflex in the wing mirror selfie?

 

[Wayne]

Where did you learn that from? Or you just made it up from the top of your head? Some more of that internet information stuff? V.M. worked as a nanny for most of her life and died poor with minimal resources allocated by former employers. Time, yes she had, when taking children out for walks.

Plus her photos were taken during decades that were generally times of plenty in America. The middle class was thriving. Cameras and film were plentiful

 

[Helios 1984]

Where did you learn that from? Or you just made it up from the top of your head? Some more of that internet information stuff? V.M. worked as a nanny for most of her life and died poor with minimal resources allocated by former employers. Time, yes she had, when taking children out for walks.

+1
*Grown-up kids she had nannied, if I'm not mistaken. She must have been real good with kids.

 

[marcmarc]

Where did you learn that from? Or you just made it up from the top of your head? Some more of that internet information stuff? V.M. worked as a nanny for most of her life and died poor with minimal resources allocated by former employers. Time, yes she had, when taking children out for walks.

I think this is a reference to how her work as a nanny has been described. By all accounts she would drop off the kids at the bus stop in the morning and then she would have the day off until it came time to meet the kids at the bus stop after school let out to bring them home. So each day after leaving the bus stop she would go and walk the city taking pictures. So she would have from morning til late afternoon to take pictures and then maybe all day on the weekends. It's a enviable thing since most of us have to be at a certain location to work eight hours a day. Maier probably got free room and board from the families she worked for and she probably would have also had her meals included so she had very little in the way of actual expenses. So whatever money she earned in the meantime went for her cameras which I would suppose even back in those days would have been pretty expensive and of course her film. So she had a good thing going, she was able to take care of herself in a way that allowed for her to have lots of time to pursue her work.

 

[btaylor]

Things are getting kinda off track, but I would think Maier’s sacrifice for her photography would have been substantial. Film was expensive, as was processing. Back in the day photography was considered an expensive hobby. Her Rollei, Leica, etc would be the equivalent of purchasing a 5D Mk III with a nice L lens today. I am sure room and board was provided by her employers, but beyond that domestic workers were paid very little. Though the ‘50’s and ‘60’s were a time of great economic expansion in the US, life was much more spare than what we are used to now.

 

[faberryman]

What does any of that have to do with the images?

 

[bernard_L]

Grown-up kids she had nannied, if I'm not mistaken. She must have been real good with kids.

Actually, the children she cared for have mixed feelings. The documentary "In search of Vivian Maier", contains interviews of these, now grown-up, even middle-aged, and they tell unsettling stories. But, as you said, some of them provided for her needs when she was old. Mixed feelings indeed.

 

[Helios 1984]

Actually, the children she cared for have mixed feelings. The documentary "In search of Vivian Maier", contains interviews of these, now grown-up, even middle-aged, and they tell unsettling stories. But, as you said, some of them provided for her needs when she was old. Mixed feelings indeed.

Nannies and kids having mixed feelings about them is in the natural order of things. Over 40 years of nannying, she must have scolded more than a few turbulent kids.

 

[bernard_L]

Nannies and kids having mixed feelings about them is in the natural order of things.

Do watch the film Finding Vivian Maier (2013). You will see/hear that, according to the testimonies, her behavior was sometimes beyond the natural order of things.

Plus, the film is generally well worth watching. Even people who have a negative opinion of John Maloof (not me) will learn from the testimonies and browsing through the photos.

As an aside --hoping I do not derail the thread-- you may have a look at this page on the get-together with the "american cousins" of V.M. in the village of the Alps where her mother was born and where she spent her childhood. I should really visit (a 2-hour drive).

 

[Pieter12]

Not wanting to be judgmental, look at some of the facts we know--she worked as a nanny for almost all her life, did not seem to have any relationships or friends, took thousands of photos that were never seen during her lifetime, some never developed or printed. A bit eccentric, somewhat of a loner and outsider.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Not wanting to be judgmental, look at some of the facts we know--she worked as a nanny for almost all her life, did not seem to have any relationships or friends, took thousands of photos that were never seen during her lifetime, some never developed or printed. A bit eccentric, somewhat of a loner and outsider.

One misconception is that Vivian never controlled her work, in fact she developed and printed, in fact there are many prints.. Ron Slatterly has a large collection,
Second misconception is how the work is being handled - Howard Greenburg Gallery represents the Maloof collection and I believe he is one of the top gallerist in the world so the film is in good hands.
I have seen the small fibre prints that were made in Europe vintage and they are excellent quality. They are matt and reading some of her letters to her printer in Europe she preferred warm matt paper.
Third misconception on Vivian's mental health, As a printer for others for the last 40 years I can say I have met many photographers like Vivian. I wonder in this male dominated forum she is demoted to be crazy or wierd , just because she was different or a woman.

One would say Eugene Smith was a bit eccentric but he does not seem to take the criticism that this woman does for her lifestyle. The health care system failed Vivian nothing less.

 

[choiliefan]

Oftentimes I shoot a self-portrait in a mirror to identify the particular camera which shot the roll.
She did much more than that.

 

[macfred]

One misconception is that Vivian never controlled her work, in fact she developed and printed, in fact there are many prints.. Ron Slatterly has a large collection,
Second misconception is how the work is being handled - Howard Greenburg Gallery represents the Maloof collection and I believe he is one of the top gallerist in the world so the film is in good hands.
I have seen the small fibre prints that were made in Europe vintage and they are excellent quality. They are matt and reading some of her letters to her printer in Europe she preferred warm matt paper.
Third misconception on Vivian's mental health, As a printer for others for the last 40 years I can say I have met many photographers like Vivian. I wonder in this male dominated forum she is demoted to be crazy or wierd , just because she was different or a woman ...

I totally agree, Bob - thank you for the statement / clarification!

 

[George Mann]

She was a snapshot shooter.

The HCB of snapshot shooters!

 

[Wayne]

Nothing more sporting than jumping to conclusions about dead people we never knew. She had money, she had time, she didn't have time or money, she was a head case she was an artist, she was mean to kids, the kids loved her, she was lonely, she had her meals provided for her lol....I thought I'd seen it all, but learn a few new dubious facts about her every time she comes up!

 

[NB23]

Nothing more sporting than jumping to conclusions about dead people we never knew. She had money, she had time, she didn't have time or money, she was a head case she was an artist, she was mean to kids, the kids loved her, she was lonely, she had her meals provided for her lol....I thought I'd seen it all, but learn a few new dubious facts about her every time she comes up!

I wait for a “he was a tranny”. Gonna come up one day.

 

[Pieter12]

"she had money" --that's why there were rolls and rolls of undeveloped film and why Maloof was able to buy the contents of her storage locker at auction?

 

[Theo Sulphate]

...I thought I'd seen it all, but learn a few new dubious facts about her every time she comes up!

The real truth will never be revealed because she had secret photos of Jack Ruby and Lee Harvey Oswald.

 

[Helios 1984]

The real truth will never be revealed because she had secret photos of Jack Ruby and Lee Harvey Oswald.

The folks from her village believed she was a spy, maybe they were right.