Very loose Copal 0 aperture lever

[MTGseattle]

I've ended up with Three Copal 0 shuttered lenses now that have very loose aperture levers. They are all modern all black Copal shutters. I did send an email to Carol Flutot, and her reply was a lack of lubrication. Can anyone comment further regarding this condition and how you dealt with it?
Bonus points for ..."remove X and apply a dot of _________ at this spot." if such info exists. I'll be flat honest and say that I would rather not open an otherwise working small shutter very far myself. but if we are talking name plate only or something like that, I am game.

 

[xkaes]

Do you mean that the plastic or metal tip is loose, or do you mean that the lever moves from maximum to minimum without any friction?

Assuming it's the latter, does the aperture open and close correctly? If so, in what way is that a problem?

I have several lenses, and some open and close easier than others, but it's not a problem.

 

[Dan Daniel]

If it is the overall motion that is too loose, can you post a photo of the back of the shutter? Not certain how that is set up on the Copal 0.

 

[MTGseattle]

Lever moves with almost no friction. To the point where I worry about it losing the correct exposure setting from a bump or even gravity.

Although bumping the tripod/camera would mean more than just a possibly goofed aperture setting. And I can avoid gravity by making sure I orient the lens with aperture on top. (I think that's how most of my modern lenses are anyway)

Here is a copied/stolen image of an F9 Copal zero.

 

[xkaes]

A tiny bit of thick grease -- not oil -- applied with a toothpick between the rear plates (just on top of the "15" in the photo) might give you the "friction" you want.

 

[Dan Daniel]

A tiny bit of thick grease -- not oil -- applied with a toothpick between the rear plates (just on top of the "15" in the photo) might give you the "friction" you want.

Exactly what I was going to suggest. Although looking at the openings in the back of the shutter case in the area of the 15, I'd suggest finding a place away from any openings. Swing the lever full travel to see where the grease might be spread out to.

And to repeat xkaes- grease!!! A small dot on a toothpick. You can put a small (small- 0 - <that is a bit too much) and repeat if not the desired effect) dot on a toothpick or on the edge of the metal disk that the lever is attached to, and then use a piece of paper or index card to push the grease under the disk.

 

[xkaes]

Well said. And clean up any excess to avoid picking up dust, sand, crap, etc.

 

[MTGseattle]

Thank you both. Any suggestions on formulation of grease? I only have automotive on hand (gray moly fortifed, red super tacky, special assembly) and an old tube of Phil Wood grease (cycling) I've got some odd little syringe of gun grease too. I can't recall the product name. It might be the mil-comm tw25b

 

[Dan Daniel]

Thank you both. Any suggestions on formulation of grease? I only have automotive on hand (gray moly fortifed, red super tacky, special assembly) and an old tube of Phil Wood grease (cycling) I've got some odd little syringe of gun grease too. I can't recall the product name. It might be the mil-comm tw25b

You want tacky- rub between your fingers to see if it maintain tack. And you want no ready separation of oil. This is something your own experience with it might answer, if you have seen oil seeping out of greased area or such. I've seen Phil Woods separate over time in bicycles.

Moly is probably not the best. Maybe super tacky, start small, operating lever a bit to be sure to spread.

It occurs to me that there might be a 'better' way, although the above will work fine. More if you over-apply. I don't know the Copal exactly. There's a chance that the whole metal disk can be removed. You need to remove the lens group and see if the inner silver disk is just a washer. On many shutters, there will be three small screws with wide heads that hold the aperture disk in place, creating three 'tabs' on the inside of the ring. In most cases, this disk can be simply lifted away and replaced without issue. If you end up going this way, I'd recommend posting a photo of the back once you get the three screw heads visible. Soomeone might see something that says leave it alone! With aperture blades, disassembly for re-assembly is a long process, probably having you learn more about shutters than you want to.

 

[xkaes]

I find it very odd that you have THREE shutters with the same "problem".

I was thinking of axle/gear grease -- that's probably what you have -- thick enough to stand up on its own. You'll only need a TINY dab in the right spot or two.

 

[MTGseattle]

I find it very odd that you have THREE shutters with the same "problem".

I was thinking of axle/gear grease -- that's probably what you have -- thick enough to stand up on its own. You'll only need a TINY dab in the right spot or two.

I guess I've won a weird used lens lottery?

 

[xkaes]

It's up there with getting struck by lighting three times.

 

[MTGseattle]

One gentleman owned two lenses that did the same thing, so he thought it was normal. I am the new owner of one of those.

 

[BrianShaw]

Not intending to nit picks, but do the aperture levers actually move from gravity or when the shutter is jiggled/vibrated, or is that mostly a concern/fear of potentiality?

 

[MTGseattle]

They will likely stay in place, but I admit to zero fail point testing. 1 of them is loose to the point where it is a concern.

 

[xkaes]

I have a similar shutter that is pretty loose, but I've never tried to "fix" it, although I'm always careful when I use it. If I happen to run across it, I'll try a dab of axle grease on it -- but I'm much more likely to find the axle grease than find that lens.

 

[xkaes]

I just realized that I'm not going to try axle grease. I'm going to use Vaseline -- everyone has that, and it should be the right consistency. The amount is TBD.

It reminds me of a trip I took to Mexico many years ago. Driving through the great seaport of Guaymas, I passed by the downtown movie theater. On the marquee, in huge letters, was "VASOLINA". I could not figure out what movie that would be until I saw underneath -- "Con Juan Travolta".

 

[BrianShaw]

Juan and Olivia would remind you that the melting point of Vaseline is quite low, which could lead to inconsistent results or worse. There’s probably a reason why that isn’t common practice…

 

[xkaes]

Not too worried since Vaseline's melting point is higher than what I'd keep my gear in.

 

[MTGseattle]

Call me cautious, but I am waiting on a reply from Carol Flutot again hoping she will spill the beans on what Copal recommended for this. I know we're only talking about a pin-head worth of grease, but still.

The 2 weird small amounts of grease I had on hand are Aeroshell 33 and "Shooters choice" all weather gun grease. Both are highly modified.

 

[BrianShaw]

Not just cautious, but wise. There are other professionals to consult; Flutot is not the only only option.

Personally, if I were going to experiment I’d opt for a real damping grease, even though they are expensive, rather than guessing and potentially using something that makes matters worse.

 

[Dan Daniel]

Personally, if I were going to experiment I’d opt for a real damping grease, even though they are expensive, rather than guessing and potentially using something that makes matters worse.

Radio controlled cars use damping greases. Small tins are under $10. More than enough for a couple hundred aperture rings, I bet! A while back I was talking to a 'grease specialist' who handled lubrication for precision microscopes. Any talk of damping grease always had references to RC cars and some of his regular customers were using his damping greases. So there's a good chance that for such a low-pressure, low repetition use as this, a visit to a local model or hobby shop might work out (if 'local' is still existing for this hobby).

Core RC Damper Grease - Light

No description provided.

store.hobbyetc.com

 

[MTGseattle]

I got a lead on one product from a camera repair place. One distributor in the US. Now to find an analogous product. I like the RC realm lead. My Dad hit me with sewing machine grease as a suggestion.

OKS 420 - High-Temperature Multipurpose Grease | OKS Spezialschmierstoffe GmbH

OKS 420 is a high-temperature grease for universal use at increased requirements.

www.oks-germany.com

 

[Dan Daniel]

I wouldn't be too concerned about this. A car axle grease would be fine. You aren't going to use much, just a small small dot, maybe two. A sticky grease and get on with it. If you want three little peas of damping grease for microscopes, three different 'grab' qualities, drop me a DM.

 

[xkaes]

My Dad hit me with sewing machine grease as a suggestion.

I'm not familiar with sewing machine grease, but I have sewing machine oil. Do not use sewing machine oil. It is WAY to liquid -- almost like water. You want something having a thick, sticky consistency.