Using an external meter by choice

[Huss]

Meterless shot using my M3. I wanted the exposure to be based off just where her face was highlighted. An inboard light meter would have completely blown this out. Walking up to her with an incident meter would have lost the opportunity for the image.

 

[Huss]

Sometimes you just have to rely on experience and hope for the best. Sunny 16 isn't going to help you indoors.

What I used to do when I first started out is wander around with a light meter, estimating the exposure, then checking with the meter. You'd be surprised how quickly you no longer need a meter.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Reminds me of the sentence you have to punctuate to make a real sentence out of it. It really is a sentence.

That that is is that that is not is not that that is is not that that is not that that is not is not that that is

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

What I used to do when I first started out is wander around with a light meter, estimating the exposure, then checking with the meter. You'd be surprised how quickly you no longer need a meter.

What about during magic hour?

 

[Richard Jepsen]

Huss, I do the same and it develops a fine tuned reality check on any meter. Concerning a non metered M body. These type of cameras are a great tool for capturing a fleeting scene vs using the camera for landscape. So pre-metering and zone focus plays to the cameras strength. You don’t want to be mulling exposure while the picture disappears.

 

[Huss]

What about during magic hour?

Same thing. Use your experience - the point of wandering around with a light meter is to use it to practice in 'difficult' situations. . Like here - magic hour as the sun has dipped low, but any camera meter would have messed this up:

 

[Huss]

More magic hour as the sun was dipping fast. Light meter would have blown this out.

 

[MattKing]

What about during magic hour?

Then too.
It is related to our earlier discussions about visualization.

 

[grat]

@Huss: I think you're being a bit harsh, and less than specific, on in-camera light meters.

At the risk of alerting the APUG police, I can honestly say that modern camera light meters, if used correctly, produce very accurate results, even in difficult lighting situations such as these images. I wouldn't expect my Bronica SQ-A (with metering prism) to handle the scene in post #401 very well, as it's center-weighted (In a vertical, elliptical shape), -- but my EOS 5 that I just bought, with it's 3.5% center spot meter, should be able to handle it just fine.

The problem is, there is no one metering mode that can handle all situations, regardless of what type of meter you're using.

 

[Huss]

@Huss: I think you're being a bit harsh, and less than specific, on in-camera light meters.

At the risk of alerting the APUG police, I can honestly say that modern camera light meters, if used correctly, produce very accurate results, even in difficult lighting situations such as these images. I wouldn't expect my Bronica SQ-A (with metering prism) to handle the scene in post #401 very well, as it's center-weighted (In a vertical, elliptical shape), -- but my EOS 5 that I just bought, with it's 3.5% center spot meter, should be able to handle it just fine.

The problem is, there is no one metering mode that can handle all situations, regardless of what type of meter you're using.

3.5% center spot would be too big for that image. Just imagine it on the pic. It would cover nearly the whole head. I wanted the forehead. But I'm not knocking built in meters. 90% of the time they are excellent and I use them.
Just need to know when to say when as most of the interesting pics for me have difficult lighting.

 

[Paul Howell]

In college we were trained in shooting sunny 16, the papers I freelanced for the majority of the press photographers were veterans, WWII and Korea. They had been trained to shoot without a meter, were not issued meters, for the most part did not use meters as they shot with Speeds and a variety of TLRs, those who shot with 35mm did not bother with a meter. I started with a spotmatic and did not use the meter, but when I got a Konica T, I used it shutter speed preferred mode. . My experience was in fast changing light the T did a better job of managing exposure than I did in sunny 16 or working with a meter or built in meter in my spot. Shooting action, I decided the lowest shutter speed I could get away with and let the aperture fall where it may. When I upgraded to the Nikon F I did miss the shutter speed exposure mode. Saying that I Huss did a better job using his experience to determine exposure than many meters, an incident meter would have done the best job but in those situations I don't see him running up shooting hold still and to meter the scene. A matrix meter would have the worse, I could not imagine that any matrix chip had those patterns in memory. Maybe a bottom weighted average meter would have as good of job.

 

[Craig75]

I think in examples Huss posted you are either using a spot meter, pointing a centre weighted meter at a big dark spot in scene for example underpass roof and deciding how much detail Yr going to throw away

realistically by then you've already lost the shot messing around so I find it easier just to say I'm shooting at f2 1/60th (or 1/30th or whatever Yr comfortable with) iso 400 and I will just take what I'm given.

I don't think in camera meter would help in any of those situations.

Sunny 16 can def help indoors tho if it's day time and Yr shooting in room through the window.

 

[Moose22]

What I used to do when I first started out is wander around with a light meter, estimating the exposure, then checking with the meter. You'd be surprised how quickly you no longer need a meter.

I've been doing this. Have been on and off for months. It... works. ish. I'm very not confident, especially in fading light, and indoors or in weird light. I just plain guess too wrong there a lot of the time.

Yesterday I shot golden hour and sort of checked with a meter. We disagreed a few times. We'll see who wins that argument when I develop those rolls, but I really do have difficulty judging as the light is dimming between Sunny 16 and sunset, or especially artificial light.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Then too.
It is related to our earlier discussions about visualization.

I'm not sure Matt what visualization has to do with getting the exposure correct? Magic hour light changes so quickly. If you shoot chromes like I often do, 1/3 of a stop can make or break it.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Just reminded myself that when I scuba-dived, I had this little Sekonic in a water-proof plastic case to measure the light underwater for my Nikonos. Sometimes, I added a strobe light which added another layer. I used to shoot ASA 200 Ektachrome.

These are a mixture of strobe and natural lighting.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/albums/72157625526207614

 

[MattKing]

I'm not sure Matt what visualization has to do with getting the exposure correct? Magic hour light changes so quickly. If you shoot chromes like I often do, 1/3 of a stop can make or break it.

Correct for what?
Your visualization, of course!
For example, the "picture in his mind's eye" that Huss foresaw when he visualized the image in his post #407 in this thread, before he released the shutter.
He did not visualize something different, such as an exposure that put the background into the range of mid-tones.

 

[Huss]

I'm not sure Matt what visualization has to do with getting the exposure correct? Magic hour light changes so quickly. If you shoot chromes like I often do, 1/3 of a stop can make or break it.

I'm not saying discard meters, just in 'tricky' situations where basically the camera has no idea where your emphasis is, it's better to take the wheel.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I'm not saying discard meters, just in 'tricky' situations where basically the camera has no idea where your emphasis is, it's better to take the wheel.

I find that a digital camera works well in these situations. Check the digital display and adjust exposure until you like the view and transfer the settings

 

[BrianShaw]

I'm not sure Matt what visualization has to do with getting the exposure correct? Magic hour light changes so quickly. If you shoot chromes like I often do, 1/3 of a stop can make or break it.

Knowing WHAT to measure with the meter to get the image you desire. (As Huss already said in post 417)

 

[wiltw]

I'm not sure Matt what visualization has to do with getting the exposure correct? Magic hour light changes so quickly. If you shoot chromes like I often do, 1/3 of a stop can make or break it.

Look at my post 376...as metered was much too bright for my idea of how to portray my front yard at night...photo 4 was much closer to what I 'previsualized'.
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/using-an-external-meter-by-choice.189044/page-16#post-2511029

 

[BrianShaw]

… which is essentially what Alan does except instead of using imagination, he uses the histogram and/or digital preview. I don’t know why Alan has such difficulties with the concept of visualization. He seems to do it intuitively… just using his specific choice of tool.

 

[Sirius Glass]

3.5% center spot would be too big for that image. Just imagine it on the pic. It would cover nearly the whole head. I wanted the forehead. But I'm not knocking built in meters. 90% of the time they are excellent and I use them.
Just need to know when to say when as most of the interesting pics for me have difficult lighting.

The Nikon F100 has a built in light meter that can be switched to spot meter mode.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I find that a digital camera works well in these situations. Check the digital display and adjust exposure until you like the view and transfer the settings

Meanwhile the subject waled away and you missed the decisive moment.

 

[wiltw]

The Nikon F100 has a built in light meter that can be switched to spot meter mode.

The problem with most spotmeter in cameras is that unless you mount a 200mm lens to shoot, you are not able to get close to a one-degree spot angle...and then when you mount the right FL, the shot is gone.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

It works for me in magic hour. But I will admit, sometimes I missed the shot because setting up took too long. I was hoping to get a little more orange for this shot before the sun set.

Chestnut Point, Manasquan Reservoir by Alan Klein, on Flickr