Trying to replicate Rolleiflex fault

[Elmarc]

Hello all
I recently experienced an intermittent fault with my Rolleiflex Automat whereby on some occasions the shutter will not fire after advancing the film.
If I advance the film again the shutter will fire.
It's as if the camera/shutter is in uncocked mode.
It happened three times during the last roll. Never a problem before that.
I should mention that for various reasons the camera had been loaded and stayed in its cocked state at frame 1 for a couple of months but after some research I discovered that cocked or uncocked should not make any difference.
So, after removing the said roll I decided to try to replicate the fault but was unable to.
The shutter fires after every advance with a test roll or without.
If the fault persists I will be sending the camera off at some point to fellow member Alex Varas as I live in Spain but for now I am curious if any other Rolleiflex users have experienced anything similar or if not, have any ideas what the problem could or could not be.
Any thoughts greatly appreciated as usual.

 

[BrianShaw]

Cocking issues like described are not unheard of with Compur shutters that are in need of a routine overhaul.

 

[Dan Daniel]

Not certain what you mean by 'the shutter will not fire.' The shutter button will not move? If not, how did you advance to the next frame?

The shutter button moves but you can tell that the shutter itself did not open and close?

Do a test roll and watch the shutter from the front as oyu wind frame to frame. See if it is opening up during the cycle.

Well, best bet is to get a cleaning and adjustment. It could be the wind system, it could be the shutter cocking system, could be the shutter itself.

 

[Elmarc]

Not certain what you mean by 'the shutter will not fire.' The shutter button will not move? If not, how did you advance to the next frame?

The shutter button moves but you can tell that the shutter itself did not open and close?

Do a test roll and watch the shutter from the front as oyu wind frame to frame. See if it is opening up during the cycle.

Well, best bet is to get a cleaning and adjustment. It could be the wind system, it could be the shutter cocking system, could be the shutter itself.

Hi Dan,
What I mean is by 'the shutter will not fire' is that the button can be depressed all the way through its travel without firing just as it can before the film is advanced/shutter cocked.
So if you can imagine the sequence of events:
Advance film
Go to fire shutter but the button acts as though it is an uncocked state and therefore with not make an exposure.
Then, I am able to advance the film once more ie: the lever is not in is locked/cocked state.
Once the shutter is cocked for a second time it will open and make an exposure.
But I cannot replicate the fault after many cycles with and without film. The shutter button activates the shutter which opens everytime.
I hope that is clear.
I should mention that the camera was serviced by an ex Rollei tech albeit about 5 years ago.

 

[BrianShaw]

I should mention that the camera was serviced by an ex Rollei tech albeit about 5 years ago.

Same answers. These things happen, sometimes sooner than 5 years. We wish that were not the case but it sometimes is...

 

[Dan Daniel]

Same answers. These things happen, sometimes sooner than 5 years. We wish that were not the case but it sometimes is...

Yep. And sometimes old cameras have worn such that an adjustment puts them on the edge of working, and a little more wear pushes them out of adjustment. And older parts can be more susceptible to grease or dirt. Best bet is to have it looked over. Or keep going for now and maybe it was just tired or such from sitting and recent usage has cleaned out some gunk.

 

[Elmarc]

Yes, I am very familiar with the quirks of old cameras from a user if not technical standpoint and will continue to use it. However, I have been able to replicate certain faults in the past with various other cameras but not this time. Lets see what happens on the next roll..

 

[John Wiegerink]

Is this problem random through the whole 12 exp roll or just the first frame when starting a new roll?

 

[Elmarc]

Is this problem random through the whole 12 exp roll or just the first frame when starting a new roll?

It happened randomly and on just the last roll.
As the camera had been loaded for some time I initially thought that I had already taken one photo and not wound on, but the fault occurred again at around frame 5 and then frame 11. So I am presuming frames 1,5 and 11 will be blank. I did wonder whether it could be a fault with the shutter button because the fault occurs when the shutter is (presumably) cocked by the crank but the shutter button can be depressed as though the camera is in the uncocked state. The strange phenomenon is that the crank is able to be re-cocked without actually taking an exposure and there is no typical click as the shutter button trips the shutter prior.

 

[OAPOli]

OP, I think it would be wiser to wait until you have developed the film to confirm that there was a fault to begin with.

 

[Elmarc]

OP, I think it would be wiser to wait until you have developed the film to confirm that there was a fault to begin with.

Yes, of course developing the roll will be next even though there was clearly a fault which will almost certainly result in blank frames.
At this point I am trying to replicate that fault.

 

[OAPOli]

The proof is in the pudding negative.