trying to reduce grain(photo-chemistry question)

[cornflower2]

Yes it will ! See a 12 y.o. post here https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/rodinal-and-sodium-sulfite.6804/ and one here http://www.film-and-darkroom-user.org.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=582

Other ideas:

1. Reduce dilution
2. Minimal agitation (stand) during development.
3. Use a lower ISO film
4. Develop at 18degC

My experience with minimising film grain (with Rodinal and all other film developers, and with all films) is that by giving MORE agitation it has the effect of reducing graininess. I always develop with Rodinal using 100% continuous agitation, for about 65% of the time which is recommended for normal (eg. every 30 secs) agitation, and I find this gives me the finest grain and also helps prevent oddball developer imperfections. Conversely, letting (Ilford films) stand in the (Rodinal) developer for eg. 20 mins. after only one single starting inversion or agitation, produces good coarse grain that looks like sand!

 

[Tor-Einar Jarnbjo]

Using different developers or additives to significantly influence grain size and structure is much based on magic and subjective perception alone. If you compare the results side by side, the differences are much smaller than what many people seem to think, or perhaps even completely absent.

There are however several other options to reduce perceived grain size e.g.:

• Use a film with a less prominent grain structure, like e.g. Fuji Acros.
• Use a slower film. I am not particularly fond of grain myself and if the situation allows it, I am often using the Adox CMS 20 at least when shooting on 135 film.
• Switch to a larger film format. If you are now shooting with 135 film, decent medium format cameras can be found for a reasonable price and the consumables are not that much more expensive. You may even save money if you shoot medium format and use a cheap, standard developer compared to 135 film and a specialized low-grain developer. Except for the Adox CMS 20, which needs a specialized developer, I am doing almost all my other films in Rodinal 1:100 stand, which with 2.5ml developer per film does not cost more than just about 2 US cents per roll.

 

[trendland]

Using different developers or additives to significantly influence grain size and structure is much based on magic and subjective perception alone. If you compare the results side by side, the differences are much smaller than what many people seem to think, or perhaps even completely absent.

There are however several other options to reduce perceived grain size e.g.:

• Use a film with a less prominent grain structure, like e.g. Fuji Acros.
• Use a slower film. I am not particularly fond of grain myself and if the situation allows it, I am often using the Adox CMS 20 at least when shooting on 135 film.
• Switch to a larger film format. If you are now shooting with 135 film, decent medium format cameras can be found for a reasonable price and the consumables are not that much more expensive. You may even save money if you shoot medium format and use a cheap, standard developer compared to 135 film and a specialized low-grain developer. Except for the Adox CMS 20, which needs a specialized developer, I am doing almost all my other films in Rodinal 1:100 stand, which with 2.5ml developer per film does not cost more than just about 2 US cents per roll.

+ 1
but interisting from experimental character with Rodinal...
with regards

 

[Alan Johnson]

Another way may be to reduce the pH of Rodinal by adding, say, Borax, which should lessen the swelllng of the emulsion and reduce grain size.
However, the developing agent in Rodinal, p-aminophenol, takes a lot longer to do its work at a given pH than Metol, n-methyl aminopheol.
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015016032883;view=1up;seq=132

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Using XTOL or better replenished XTOL will help you accomplish your desires.

View attachment 193895​

after a few complete dev failures I stay away from Xtol;Also hate that it only comes in large volumes.

 

[Kawaiithulhu]

If you've had "a few" failures of XTol it's you and not the XTol. I agree with the 5L of stock being a lot, but I subdivide that into 1L bottles that stack up nicely for storage.
I don't really find XTol to be a "fine grained" developer no matter what the little Kodak chart says, it's so near my other developers that the extra 10 angels dancing on the head of that pin didn't make a difference.

Rodinal I've only used for 4x5 so I guess that's inapplicable to the original question. For reference I last developed HP5+ 4x5 in a SP445 with very gentle agitation of two slow inversions during 10 seconds every 60 seconds and get some very usable negatives that don't look grainy at all, and maintain that HP5+ in the shadows look.
If I get a chance I'll try the same regimen with 35mm Trix and see what the results are. I know that I'll get a smoother, cleaner result with Acros 100 but I don't have any in 35mm right now.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

If you've had "a few" failures of XTol it's you and not the XTol. I agree with the 5L of stock being a lot, but I subdivide that into 1L bottles that stack up nicely for storage.
I don't really find XTol to be a "fine grained" developer no matter what the little Kodak chart says, it's so near my other developers that the extra 10 angels dancing on the head of that pin didn't make a difference.

Rodinal I've only used for 4x5 so I guess that's inapplicable to the original question. For reference I last developed HP5+ 4x5 in a SP445 with very gentle agitation of two slow inversions during 10 seconds every 60 seconds and get some very usable negatives that don't look grainy at all, and maintain that HP5+ in the shadows look.
If I get a chance I'll try the same regimen with 35mm Trix and see what the results are. I know that I'll get a smoother, cleaner result with Acros 100 but I don't have any in 35mm right now.

trust me,I've used my share f different developers and Xtol is not my choice;I"m glad it works well for you but,I'll stick to my favorites.

 

[Paul Howell]

after a few complete dev failures I stay away from Xtol;Also hate that it only comes in large volumes.

Foma makes a one liter kit, I used it and like the results.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Foma makes a one liter kit, I used it and like the results.

good for you;I tried Xtol and now stay away from it; rather mix D23.