Troubles with developing Tri-X

John Wiegerink

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What Andy says! I have never found aggressive agitation to be beneficial in my development of film. When I started to develop my own 120/620 film I noticed uneven development on the edges of the negatives. Thinking it was lack of agitation I naturally gave it more agitation, but the problem seemed to get worse. The light bulb then came on pretty bright and the problem was solved when I cut back to a gentle and very brief agitation. I also found that Rodinal developer was more prone to this problem than some of the other developers I have used.
 

ole-squint

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You mention that you're on well water. Try using distilled water from a grocery store. There may be certain minerals in your well water that's messing up your developer.
 

pentaxuser

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OP, just out of interest where did you find your originally stated times for Tri-X and for fixing? Whatever that source was it may be wrong on a lot of other film-processíng matters. The cost of film and the effort required to produce negatives that give OK results are just too much to risk using poor info

pentaxuser
 
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DsrtBill

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This video from Ilford might help you visualize the process, although I would not have used the squeegee at the end. There is too much risk of scratching the film, I just hang my film to dry.
I have watched this video before, and got a squeegee because of it. After using the squeegee and scratching the emulsion off multiple frames, I decided not to do that again!

Thank you so much, Alex!

No, no, I do not think recommending books is harsh at all. I have The Darkroom Handbook by Michael Langford. I just missed the small section on temperature. After your comment, I checked this morning and saw it! I feel like it does not explain the concept well, though in the end, it's completely my mistake.
I have tried to stick to the book and manufacturer's instructions for everything outside of developer dilutions.

That makes sense; not checking the temperature multiple times. I was mainly concerned with how much difference the sun would make on a dark tank. I am developing outdoors currently.

Also, I will have to try your ice-cube method and MattKing's method for mixing the solution once it gets hotter.

Will do, for both trying to keep ~20c and fixing longer!

I am still trying to figure out how to agitate properly. Currently, I slowly roll the agitation stick between my thumb and index finger. This is about a quarter of a rotation of the tank in 10 seconds.
The other way I was agitating was rolling it between said fingers, but for 5 seconds one direction and 5 the other, which was maybe a half rotation in both directions.

You mention that you're on well water. Try using distilled water from a grocery store. There may be certain minerals in your well water that's messing up your developer.
I have only used well water to wash the film; however, most of the time I use distilled water to wash. I strictly use distilled water to mix the working solutions.

For the fixer, I used this sheet. On page 2 under 'Fixing times', it lists 2-5 Minutes for "General purpose films", and I followed the minimum amount of time.

The developer is a different story. Somewhere, buried in this forum, I found a post listing dilutions for Rodinal: 1:50 8-10 min and 1:75 12-14 min. These were attributed to
Bob Schwalberg. For this, I also followed the minimum time. Funnily enough, when I found the post, it was @Alex Benjamin who posted it. If I had only read a little further...
I found the times for FP4+ at 1:75 a tad under what I liked, so I added a little. Did not try Tri-X at these times.
Link to that thread: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/tri-x-developed-in-rodinal.193470/post-2655511

Again, thank you to everyone, and apologies for these longer posts. I am trying to address any questions and acknowledge everyone's advice.
- Bill
 
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OP

DsrtBill

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Here are the results;
Both photos are of the emulsion side, since any photo of the front is just a reflection of the lights above.

Process:
Checked the distilled water temperature before loading the tank with film.
Used the Paterson tank this time.
Checked water again after, no change, and was at 20.5c.
Used Rodinal 1:50 - 588ml water and 12ml Rodinal. Checked the temp before pouring into the tank, and read exactly 20c.
14 minutes, first minute agitated, then the last 10 seconds of every minute after.
Filled the tank up once from the well, but after reading the temperature of the well water at 18c abandoned that. Dumped the water and filled the tank up with distilled water, dumped and refilled 4 times total. Before dumping, I let them sit for maybe 20-30 seconds while preparing for the next fill, a little less for the well water. I'll be switching to a different method if anyone has advice on doing Water Stop baths.
I accidentally left a little bit of the water from the bath, so the fixer was slightly diluted when I poured it in. Fixed for 4 minutes, and took it out to look at it after. I thought it looked fine, so I dumped out the diluted fixer.
Ilford wash method
Then used Sprint Archive Fixer remover for ~3 minutes. It was getting dark, so my note-taking failed around here.
Ilford washed again and ran through Photo-Flo. I got some particles on the negatives while running through Photo-flo and while photographing. I also broke a cylinder, which I am still a little sore over.


Lost a few frames to surge marks from over-agitation, though it is only on the first few. Do these negatives look about right? I would say they look mildly better in person than compared to the photos. If I had a light table, it would make this easier!

- Bill
 

Craig

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I'd say that's under agitated. When I use the stick I'll turn it vigorously for several revolutions to get the liquid moving, then stop the stick abruptly so the fluid is moving past the film. So perhaps 5-7 seconds turning, every 30 seconds.

I've not had surge marks around the sprocket holes, but I'm also using Xtol as my developer.

I use an acid stop with the indicator in it. Pour it in, twist the stick vigorously, or put the cap on and invert a few times. your choice and pour out. 15s is all it need, the reaction happens quickly. I dump and it if it's still yellow, then it's acid and can be reused. Blue means the acid has all reacted and it's a base now - discard.
 

mshchem

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Excellent advice here! Figure 8 method is classic. This is how I learned.

Also, water wash needs to be kept around 20°C. Cold water is not good, neither is too warm .

20-24°C is just right (waterwash not porridge!)

Best!
 

250swb

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I agitate the same way @Craig does, with the stick and four or five full turns in one direction then stop abruptly and the developer keeps flowing. I've not had uneven development or surge marks since I saw the light and adopted the twizzle stick thirty years ago. And I agree the OP isn't using the stick correctly, it's good to be gentle and not over agitate but moving it a fraction of a turn isn't really doing anything, the idea is to get fresh developer into the emulsion, not extend the life of the developer already in the emulsion. A variation of rotational agitation is to just to gently swish the developer in the tank, an ideal method for high contrast films.

But a good book is what the OP needs, the OP has clearly started with some confusing advice and just one source of good advice (or one mentor) is required.
 
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