Trouble Loading 35mm Stainless Steel Reels

SodaAnt said:

Some people have the patience and/or dexterity to do the most amazing things that others can’t even imagine doing.

I used to play golf with a guy who passed the time waiting for the group ahead to finish by stacking golf balls. He could routinely stack four balls. I couldn’t even stack two. His ball stacking ability didn’t make him a better player, however—he had a 17 handicap, I had a 4.

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What's "stacking golf balls"?

Philippe-Georges said:

What's "stacking golf balls"?

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I have no idea either and English is my first language

pentaxuser

Philippe-Georges said:

What's "stacking golf balls"?

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The internet offers so much!

Hmm... I wonder where SodaAnt's mate was when he stacked 4 balls? Waiting for group ahead to finish suggests: Either he was on the previous hole and could see the group ahead or was on the penultimate hole waiting for the group to finish the round on the 18th

So either way I wonder where the flat and level surface was on the golf course that was similar to the video presenter's flat surface and did he to have a spirit level handy as well?

I tired this stacking on what I judged to be a level spot on my lawn and got so frustrated that I have now shot the wife and am waiting for the police to arrive. I don't play golf so how come I have golf balls, you may ask yourself. A reasonable question. Well I had a golden retriever who used to find golf balls regularly which were "skied" out of the golf course on to a passing field

Sadly Honey ( the retriever's name, not the late wife's name ) is now departed as is my golf ball sales income and any minute now it will be my turn to depart in a "black and white"

I was happy before reading this thread

pentaxuser

MattKing said:

The internet offers so much!

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Now you have saved many sleepless nights!

Here's more to my saga of film reels:

I ordered a Hewes stainless steel reel for 120 format film and some expired film I could sacrifice for loading practice. I wanted to see how difficult these reels were to load compared to their 35mm brothers. I also used a plastic Paterson reel for comparison purposes.

The Good: I found that once I got the film attached under the spring clip on the Hewes reel the film loaded fast and easy. Even easier than the 35mm reel.

The Bad: Getting the film under the spring clip in the dark was almost as hard as snagging the pins onto the sprocket holes on the 35mm reel. Leaving the tape on the end of the film or removing it didn't seem to make one bit of difference.

The Ugly: Ultimate success is really measured by getting the film centered under that clip. Once I master that step, I'm home free. Doing it in the dark, by feel, is going to take lots of practice (or IR goggles).

Now the Paterson reel... Loading the Paterson reel with the lights on is trivial by comparison: slide the film under the flanges, grab the end and pull it past the ball bearings, and crank the reel back and forth. Easy as pie. What's not easy as pie, however, is getting the wide 120 film under those flanges in the dark! The flanges are small, and without the benefit of sight, it's as difficult as getting the film into the center clip on the Hewes reel.

Next steps: Practice with the Hewes reel. Try the Arista reels I've ordered from Freestyle. The Arista reels have much larger flanges than the Paterson reels and should make it easier to get the film started.

One question with Paterson/Arista reels: Once I remove the film from the backing paper, it curls up into a tight cylinder. Cranking the Paterson reel with the film curled like this makes the film jump out of the flange. What's a good way to deal with the curled up film while cranking the reel back and forth to load the film?

I'm a relative newb to home developing and I started out with Hewes steel reels. Loading the 35mm reels was fairly easy with some practice but, as others have said, the 120 reels were more challenging. I switched over to Jobo 1500 series reels and tanks (with inversion agitation) and haven't looked back. The Jobo reels are super simple to load for both 35mm and 120 film and the tanks are high quality and don't leak. I've never used Paterson reels so I can't compare, but I can't imagine anything much easier to load than the Jobo reels.

logan2z said:

I switched over to Jobo 1500 series reels and tanks (with inversion agitation) and haven't looked back.

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Looks like I should order a Jobo tank and reels and try those too!

SodaAnt said:

One question with Paterson/Arista reels: Once I remove the film from the backing paper, it curls up into a tight cylinder. Cranking the Paterson reel with the film curled like this makes the film jump out of the flange. What's a good way to deal with the curled up film while cranking the reel back and forth to load the film?

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It is all in how you hold the reels!
Although I find it very helpful to leave the tape folded over the leading edge of the film.
Once the film is started, you need to hold the reel sides lightly and advance/ratchet them smoothly and gently. If you can hold those sides with just the fingertips on your two hands, that is best.
It is important that the reel sides remain parallel with each other. Push hard, and the loading isn't as easy.
The film curl varies a bit between films. The T-Max films I usually load generally uncurl a bit due to gravity, and hang down below the reel as I load them.

I reel 120 straight off the spool. Unwind enough to feel the tail and then get that tail under the clip. Getting the film centered is key.

Getting the film to fold on the first edge of the spiral is the next goal.

Then continue reeling and peeling. The paper will curl into its own roll as the film goes between spirals. At the end, tear the tape. I prefer to leave half the tape on the film, but it’s only a little effort if you want to peel it off.

Don’t worry about the luminous flash of green light. It’s not bright enough to fog the film.

I cheat; I have an ATN Viper infrared viewer so I can see what I’m doing. But these tips work as well in the dark.

pentaxuser said:

Hmm... I wonder where SodaAnt's mate was when he stacked 4 balls? Waiting for group ahead to finish suggests: Either he was on the previous hole and could see the group ahead or was on the penultimate hole waiting for the group to finish the round on the 18th

So either way I wonder where the flat and level surface was on the golf course that was similar to the video presenter's flat surface and did he to have a spirit level handy as well?

I tired this stacking on what I judged to be a level spot on my lawn and got so frustrated that I have now shot the wife and am waiting for the police to arrive. I don't play golf so how come I have golf balls, you may ask yourself. A reasonable question. Well I had a golden retriever who used to find golf balls regularly which were "skied" out of the golf course on to a passing field

Sadly Honey ( the retriever's name, not the late wife's name ) is now departed as is my golf ball sales income and any minute now it will be my turn to depart in a "black and white"

I was happy before reading this thread

pentaxuser

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Now I have seen that video, I realise wow deceitfully 'youtubers' (does that word exists?) can bee!

I never played golf, but I saw it happening (to-) many times as, among my clients, I had a publisher who only wanted to negotiate a project while golfing (I hoped so many times it would rain)...
Anyway, I found it awkward to see (elderly-) people spending a huge amount of funds to run around on excessively watered and intensively maintained grass plains, and knocking, with hammer shaped shiny iron sticks, on little stone hard balls so these travel at a speed that can kill, aiming at red pennons marked holes, and than drive away on funny unstable electric carts.
And what I also remember is that there were no waterlevel flat white hard surfaces where balls can be stacked, just grass or sand on a faint slope, which they call a "bunker"...
An other thing I saw was that they use these little spike kind of plastic 'holders' on which they pin their ball so it couldn't run away, poor balls!

They say that this "game" was invented by the Scots, whom I thought to be a very rational people...

Seriously now, I never liked 35mm film, and found loading it on any brand of reels was a rather 'painful' thing to do, that's why I like 120 film so much, it gives you a kind of 'grip'...

Bill Burk said:

I reel 120 straight off the spool. Unwind enough to feel the tail and then get that tail under the clip. Getting the film centered is key.

Getting the film to fold on the first edge of the spiral is the next goal.

Then continue reeling and peeling. The paper will curl into its own roll as the film goes between spirals. At the end, tear the tape. I prefer to leave half the tape on the film, but it’s only a little effort if you want to peel it off.

Don’t worry about the luminous flash of green light. It’s not bright enough to fog the film.

I cheat; I have an ATN Viper infrared viewer so I can see what I’m doing. But these tips work as well in the dark.

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Ha, you are a man to my heart!

Several people have mentioned IR viewers, but whenever I go look them up, the particular model mentioned is no longer available. Has anyone bought one of these recently that they can recommend?

This is my fav 120 reel. They have a sleeve like clip so it is really easy to position the film. Anyone know what brand this is? I've been using a couple of these for 15 years now but can't find them anymore.

Saganich said:

This is my fav 120 reel. They have a sleeve like clip so it is really easy to position the film. Anyone know what brand this is? I've been using a couple of these for 15 years now but can't find them anymore.

View attachment 344455

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Kinderman...... I have them both in 35 & 120 each with a Kinderman loader.

SodaAnt said:

Several people have mentioned IR viewers, but whenever I go look them up, the particular model mentioned is no longer available. Has anyone bought one of these recently that they can recommend?

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I got mine used from the AGFA-Gevaert Mortsel factory (end '80s), I think that the best way to find one is on the used market.
Mine is US made, and if I am not mistaking the manufacturer, FJW Industries, is still in business.
The mounting on the construction site helmet is DIY...

Ballinderry-Michael said:

I just looked at the IR video from post 18. It helped him to see what he was doing; but it also illustrated exactly how not to handle film.

Sorry this comment is off-topic for the thread.

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I agree, this was just me demonstrating the goggles. Handle by the edges or wear cotton gloves

Philippe-Georges said:

I got mine used from the AGFA-Gevaert Mortsel factory (end '80s), I think that the best way to find one is on the used market.
Mine is US made, and if I am not mistaking the manufacturer, FJW Industries, is still in business.
The mounting on the construction site helmet is DIY...

View attachment 344498

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Kodak offered IR viewers in their professional products catalogs back in the day. You have a great setup there!!

My order with an AP reel and a Jobo reel arrived today.

The AP reel is like magic. The wide flanges make loading 120 film easy. I was able to load a practice roll in the dark the very first time. Much easier to get the film engaged in the reel compared to the Paterson reels, and after that the film loads by cranking the two halves of the reel back and forth just like the Paterson reels.

I found the Jobo reel, on the other hand, much harder to load than the Paterson reel. Its flanges are even smaller and harder to find in the dark and get the film under it. And the Jobo doesn't have the ball bearings the other two reels do that allow the film to advance in only one direction. With the Jobo you need to do that function with your fingers, and I found it unnatural.

I strongly recommend the AP reels to anyone looking for an easy to load reel for 120 film (and 35mm is even easier to load with these reels). Forget Paterson and Jobo and get this reel.

SodaAnt said:

I found the Jobo reel, on the other hand, much harder to load than the Paterson reel. It's flanges are even smaller and harder to find in the dark and get the film under it.

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I'm sorry you didn't find the Jobo reel easy to load.

One thing you can do is put a short, scrap piece of film into the slots of the Jobo reel before turning out the lights. That makes it easy to find the opening of the reel in the dark. You can then slide the beginning of your film strip along the top of the film scrap and it'll act as a guide to get the film onto the reel. Once the first couple of inches of the film strip are on the reel, pull out the scrap and continue loading your film roll using your fingers.

SodaAnt said:

The AP reel is like magic. The wide flanges make loading 120 film easy. I was able to load a practice roll in the dark the very first time. Much easier to get the film engaged in the reel compared to the Paterson reels, and after that the film loads by cranking the two halves of the reel back and forth just like the Paterson reels.

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I really like the AP reels as well - Paterson tanks work well with the AP reels. One word of caution about the AP reels - one of mine was a little bent when I got it; the top and bottom parts of the flange on one side were too close together. This caused one roll of film to get a longitudinal scratch from the loading process. I was able to fix the gap by bending the two parts of the flange apart a little so it no longer happens - now it's fine and has done many rolls with no issues.

Sirius Glass said:

So true.

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Nothing sucks more than unloading your zillionth sheet of film, during a week long shoot, in large format only, than no remembering if your last series of holders were unloaded into the shot film box, with or without the lights on, and the set is being completely remade for the next shot, while you're unloading/loading film holders!

IMoL said:

One word of caution about the AP reels - one of mine was a little bent when I got it; the top and bottom parts of the flange on one side were too close together. This caused one roll of film to get a longitudinal scratch from the loading process.

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Thanks for the heads-up. I checked mine and it doesn't seem to have that problem. The proof will be in the pudding this weekend when I develop my first roll of film using this reel.

The key is to bend the film. Works fine with me on 35 and 120. Hewes are really good.

Guillaume Zuili said:

The key is to bend the film. Works fine with me on 35 and 120. Hewes are really good.

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Thanks. I plan to continue practicing with my Hewes reels. I'll use the AP reels for now because I know I can successfully load them in the dark.