Tripod recommendations needed for a Pentax 67

[btaylor]

[QUOTE="markbau, post: 2186036, member: 32767]
The Berlebach looks promising, it's not a brand I'm familiar with. [/QUOTE]
I have the Berlebach Report, I put a Gitzo 1570 pan/tilt head on it. I supports my Calumet C1 8x10 fine in the field. I would think it could handle the Pentax 6x7 too. I like a pan tilt head with heavier cameras, for me it is easier to control. I really like the Berlebach— I like the way it handles and I think the wood suppresses vibrations well. I have a Ries too, great tripod, but the Berlebach is much easier to carry around.

 

[John51]

The wheelchair I use is now close to 20 years old, but it has been repaired several times. It weighs nearly 400 pounds with part of that weight being a great suspension. I can jump a 5 inch gutter with it, which makes it truly great in my book. But the springs that make that possible make it more like a rocking chair than a stool. It can easily be tilted back and forth and even a little side to side. That means I cannot get a good shot mounted from it.

The motors from a cordless drill will have enough power to operate a scissor jack. 3 of them under the chair. Hit the button(s) and you're sat on a sturdy tripod.

 

[choiliefan]

I use a largish homemade leather bean-bag for most of my long lens photography.
It works well with the old SMC 67 300mm and 500mm Bronica lenses.
It's attached to an old Pentax quick release plate which locks into the shoe which can be mounted to any substantial tripod or head.
The bean bag conforms to various shapes and does a terrific job absorbing vibration.

 

[DREW WILEY]

John - I'd argue that the batteries and motors of most cordless drills can grind out their own worthless gear trains within a few months if serious torque is involved. We had the biggest repair facility in the area before a bunch of us retired. But I sold the best of the best of em, so know the difference. Well, I didn't sell aerospace versions, but have certainly had them in my hands; those kind of cordless drills can cost up to $8000 apiece. What you might get a kick out of is how I took a $25 scissor jack and made a better router lift for my Festool plunge router table than hundreds of even thousands of dollars of an official lift system would have gotten me. It's faster and more accurate too. I've got a phD in jerry-rigging.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Bean bags, yeah ... there are several analogs to what a good rifle marksman might use. I've simply wadded up a coat and put atop my car roof to hand-shoot the 300 Pentax. But lots of tripods and heads amplify vibrations.

 

[John51]

John - I'd argue that the batteries and motors of most cordless drills can grind out their own worthless gear trains within a few months if serious torque is involved. We had the biggest repair facility in the area before a bunch of us retired. But I sold the best of the best of em, so know the difference. Well, I didn't sell aerospace versions, but have certainly had them in my hands; those kind of cordless drills can cost up to $8000 apiece. What you might get a kick out of is how I took a $25 scissor jack and made a better router lift for my Festool plunge router table than hundreds of even thousands of dollars of an official lift system would have gotten me. It's faster and more accurate too. I've got a phD in jerry-rigging.

I too like jerry rigging but did buy some Festools when I could afford them. They guard their retail price so online deals are rare. No problem getting a discount from bricks and mortar stores though.

Nice idea for the router lift. I've got a Chinese spindle that I bought to use on a router table...need to sort the darkroom first though.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Well, there are no legit discounts from stores on Festool unless they're mfg authorized and exactly the same everywhere in the same country, exactly according to published contract. I helped iron out that policy in person with the former CEO. If a dealer violated it, their account was closed. No exceptions. But if a dealer was going bankrupt and liquidating his inventory, nothing could be done about that. I'm now retired, but seem to use the precision of my Festool gear more for making nice darkroom fixtures and accessories than even remodeling.

 

[cooltouch]

I have a set of Bogen 3021 legs with a giant no-name ball head that I've been using for about as long as your Manfroto has been around, and my old rig is still going strong. As I'm sure you know, Bogen was produced by Manfrotto, and I think Manfrotto still makes the 3021 legs. I have used all manner of heavy outfits bolted down to this rig, like Tamron's 150-500 zoom with a Canon F-1 and motor drive attached hanging off the back of it. And I've also used my Pentax 67 and 200mm lens on the same rig. It handles this kind of weight without issues. So . . . maybe the old 3021 -- or the new Manfrotto 3021 -- might be the ticket you're looking for. I don't know about a head, though. I'm satisfied with what I have. I used to own a Bogen 3047 head. It was a bit ungainly, but it worked well -- rock solid.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Like I said earlier, it's a whole new ballgame once you scale up from 200mm usage on the P67 to anything longer, including the 300. So if your tripod handled a 200 fine, don't just assume it will handle a 300. Nor do analogies to long lenses on 35mm SLR's apply. It's like going from a Shetland pony to a Clydesdale.

 

[cooltouch]

I have a LOT of experience shooting with heavy rigs and long lenses, almost all of it using the Bogen 3021 legs, and about half with the 3047 head and half with this giant no-name ball head I currently have. Just because the Pentax 67 is big, that doesn't change simple physics. I just recently bought a late 300mm for my 67 and I was surprised by one aspect of it -- it is a very light lens for a 300mm. So yes, I haven't shot with it yet, but given the fact that it is so light, I don't anticipate having any weight-induced problems using it. Hey, use whatever you like. I've been using my setup with my 67 for the past few years without issues and I will continue to do so.

I do have another one that you might consider. Something of the ultimate of tripods that are still at least somewhat portable. I have an old Majestic tripod with the head that has the cranks on it and a platform big enough for an 8x10. Mine looks like this one:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MAJESTIC-H...223476087025?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

 

[DREW WILEY]

It's all relative. There's an aspheric lens and mirror shop about 3 miles up the road from me. The things they make go on "tripods" costing billions of dollars, namely, giant observatories and big space telescopes. They made the correction lenses for the Hubble, and could no doubt make one of us an exceptional camera lens if we happen to have a NASA or NSA credit card with no credit limit. But the one thing a few of their employees do after hours is teach mirror grinding to amateur astronomers; and as these serious hobbyists start getting up into the range of 16 snf 18 inch diameter mirrors combined with a limited personal budget, there has been some pretty clever support innovations adapting trailers and so forth to big clock-drive mounts. The P67 300EDIF combined with either P67 cameras or digital capture is popular with widefield astrophotographers because it's so well corrected. Of course, one generally needs a clock-drive system for that too, unless just shooting the moon. The 400EDIF is also used.

 

[choiliefan]

Perhaps a Quickset Hercules tripod fits the bill?

 

[DREW WILEY]

Well, this is a Pentax thread here; but if you want to invest in my get-rich-quick view camera patent, there's the simple overlooked fact that the bigger a view camera is, the bigger the bellows, and the bigger the bellows, the more helium it can contain, and the lighter it will be. And since Goodyear blimps are being retired, you can make a lot of side money floating around with advertisements painted on the bellows pleats.

 

[braxus]

I have the Pentax 67II with the older 300mm lens. I have always used my Manfrotto tripod with this gear. I have the 455B legs with the 141RC head. That head has the quick release and is very stable. Only thing is this combo is years old. The 055 would be my choice today, but the head is more complicated, as I don't see a modern version of the 141RC. Maybe used somewhere?

 

[Sirius Glass]

I have the Pentax 67II with the older 300mm lens. I have always used my Manfrotto tripod with this gear. I have the 455B legs with the 141RC head. That head has the quick release and is very stable. Only thing is this combo is years old. The 055 would be my choice today, but the head is more complicated, as I don't see a modern version of the 141RC. Maybe used somewhere?

My Hasselblad 500mm lenses weighs about 2 Kg or 4 pounds and I attach it to the Induro carbon fiber tripod which easily handles the weight. That tripod also can handle my 4"x5" cameras. It cost a whole lot less than the Manfrotto or Bogen tripods.

 

[DREW WILEY]

And Sirius, once again, what you describe is not necessarily adequate for a P67 with a long lens. I doubt it. Handling a 4x5 camera is a far easier task than this one, when it comes to this tripod stability. Even my mid-weight Ries wooden tripod is insufficient. You're trying to compare apples n' oranges. Hassie isn't P67. I know I'll get a lot of flack, because people seem to be successful doing this or that. But I'll bet if they did it right, and then compared the results under a good loupe, they'd see a real difference.

 

[Sirius Glass]

And Sirius, once again, what you describe is not necessarily adequate for a P67 with a long lens. I doubt it. Handling a 4x5 camera is a far easier task than this one, when it comes to this tripod stability. Even my mid-weight Ries wooden tripod is insufficient. You're trying to compare apples n' oranges. Hassie isn't P67. I know I'll get a lot of flack, because people seem to be successful doing this or that. But I'll bet if they did it right, and then compared the results under a good loupe, they'd see a real difference.

Take the time to look at their site and see the range of offerings before firing off a comment so quickly without properly engaging what was presented.

 

[DREW WILEY]

OK, Sirius, I will show my cards. I have that exact tripod head (under the previous Bogen label) and have used it on a FAR more stable tripod than the one you'll talking about, and it works OK with my 300 P67 lens, just OK. I do in fact get demonstratively sharper images via my method, bolting the camera and lens directly atop a large tripod platform top. This becomes particularly evident when using the especially well corrected EDIF version of the 300. Just depends on how critical you need your exposures. So, NO, I was not just firing off a comment. I've tested these things very very methodically.

 

[DREW WILEY]

That looks interesting Alexander, although preposterously under-built for the specific application presently under discussion. I use the very first Gitzo Reporter carbon fiber tripod for backpacking trips with 4X5 cameras and even the Pentax 67 system shy of its 300 lens usage, where the rules of the game change dramatically. But I never use nor commend a ball head,
especially a budget one, unless the camera itself is very light.

 

[Sirius Glass]

OK, Sirius, I will show my cards. I have that exact tripod head (under the previous Bogen label) and have used it on a FAR more stable tripod than the one you'll talking about, and it works OK with my 300 P67 lens, just OK. I do in fact get demonstratively sharper images via my method, bolting the camera and lens directly atop a large tripod platform top. This becomes particularly evident when using the especially well corrected EDIF version of the 300. Just depends on how critical you need your exposures. So, NO, I was not just firing off a comment. I've tested these things very very methodically.

I guess you must me sneaking around my place to know which model I am using. :horrors:

Just to let everyone in on the great secret:

Induro Carbon Fiber Legs – CT 214
Induro Magnesium Pan Head – PHQ 1​

These are discontinued but rated at ~35 pounds, much more than I would ever expect to load with the Hasselblad.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Oh, I guess I was responding to your response to braxus, who does have the Manfrotto/Bogen system, with its quite heavy cast tripod head. Sorry for the confusion. But it still wouldn't change my general answer. My own lightwt CF tripod for use with the P300 is one of the heaviest Feisol makes, quite a bit heavier than the Induro one you mention, legs alone around 7 lb, but more important, it has been modified to give it a distinct platform top to which I can directly bolt my camera/lens special combination mount. Rated at this or that dead weight has relatively little to do with it. But even being able to support that P67 combination without vibration issues in good condition, assuming the mirror lockup is also used, the big CF is still inferior to my much larger Ries wooden tripod which weighs over twice as much. Sometimes there's simply no real substitute for sheer bully mass and big spike feet, especially in a breeze or on spongy ground. And real wood is especially good in absorbing rather than amplifying vibrations. But this week at least, while I'm still recovering from a round of shoulder bursitis, I will be using the lightweight option. A massive tripod head is not necessarily a good idea because its own weight increases the torque vector right at the neck of connection to the legs. I also get rid of any center column entirely, just one more weak point. But I have heard that those Induro products are very well made.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I agree that wood tripods are more stable than the same size carbon fiber tripod. However I have found that carbon fiber, aluminum, steel and wood tripods increase in weight as the cube of the distance walked in meters or yards.

Tripod Weight = Initial Tripod Weight * (Distance Walked in Meters or Yards)3

 

[DREW WILEY]

My older Gitzo Reporter CF is 3-ply and has held up all these years under harsh mountain conditions, but the newer equivalent units are only 2-ply just to save half a pound, and I've seen those break the first week. I had to whittle two whitebark pine prosthetic legs and duct tape them on when a friend had one snapp during a slip in the creek. All it takes is a dent or deep scratch. My Feisol has particularly large diameters legs which helps with 8X10 camera or P67/300 use, but is itself 2-ply, so I'm more careful with it than rugged Ries maple tripods. I supplied a lot of materials and equipment to the America's Cup crews before I retired. One of Ellison's winning team brought me samples of all the versions of carbon fibers they used, everything from heavy dense 12-ply, stronger than steel, like Ellison uses on his billion dollar huge personal yacht, to custom Kevlar ultralight 2-ply used for masts etc on the racing yachts. Too light. One of those masts snapped during a training run and drowned one of the sailors under a sail. I had spoken to him just two days before. Now the rules have changed and everything has to be heavier. But carbon fiber tubing is far easier to handle on a bitter cold morning in the mountains, or in winter, than aluminum.

 

[cooltouch]

Welp, all this discussion about the unique properties of the P67 as pertains to tripod stability has my curiosity finally piqued. So, tomorrow I'm gonna dust off my 67 and the only 300mm I have for it -- a late 300mm f/4 -- and gather up my small collection of tripods I've always considered to be stout ones, and go burn through a roll of film I'll be able to develop quickly. I think I have some Tri-X around here somewhere. Anyway, I reckon I'll be able to determine to my satisfaction just how much truth there is to the P67's remarkable vibration inducing capabilities at 300mm. And with a little bit of luck, I'll have some concrete results to report back here before this thread goes stale -- which I don't see happening anytime soon.

 

[GLS]

I have every confidence my Gitzo/Arca Swiss tripod setup would be more than up to the task of stabilising the ED 300mm.

Anyone want to send me one to test?