Tripod head for 4x5 field cam- Recommendations please

[Grafmatic]

Indeed I did. And yes, LF cameras are not the fastest way to work. But if you’re
slow- or your equipment is-you can lose shots, especially under volatile light conditions. From my previous life as a large format photographer, I learned that leveling is one of the potential biggest time sinks. Even with the LF camera, sometimes that extra minute can cause you the shot. After I saw the video linked below, I realized that a leveling base can be a big time saver and the slight weight tradeoff is worth it.

I used to have the Zone VI wooden tripod. Every leveling operation was three leveling operations, repeat go around again maybe repeat as needed, as many times as it takes.I am ditching my Bogan 3047 head which weighs nearly 4 pounds and replacing it with two pieces of gear that combined probably weigh half that. It will still be a light setup. While your points about complexity are valid, I’m going to try it with and without the leveling base. If I don’t like it, eBay here I come.

Here’s a link to a video I discovered, which has the best explanation of how to pick a tripod that I have ever seen. It explains a lot of stuff that didn’t exist in my first life as a large format photographer. The relevant part starts at exactly 15:00 in.

 

[GregY]

Indeed I did. And yes, LF cameras are not the fastest way to work. But if you’re
slow- or your equipment is-you can lose shots, especially under volatile light conditions. From my previous life as a large format photographer, I learned that leveling is one of the potential biggest time sinks. Even with the LF camera, sometimes that extra minute can cause you the shot. After I saw the video linked below, I realized that a leveling base can be a big time saver and the slight weight tradeoff is worth it.

I used to have the Zone VI wooden tripod. Every leveling operation was three leveling operations, repeat go around again maybe repeat as needed, as many times as it takes.I am ditching my Bogan 3047 head which weighs nearly 4 pounds and replacing it with two pieces of gear that combined probably weigh half that. It will still be a light setup. While your points about complexity are valid, I’m going to try it with and without the leveling base. If I don’t like it, eBay here I come.

Here’s a link to a video I discovered, which has the best explanation of how to pick a tripod that I have ever seen. It explains a lot of stuff that didn’t exist in my first life as a large format photographer. The relevant part starts at exactly 15:00 in.

I started photography before the internet & spent more than a decade w 5x7" & 8x10".... sorry, i lost interest in even viewing the video when i saw "flat bed scanning"

 

[Grafmatic]

I started photography before the internet & spent more than a decade w 5x7" & 8x10".... sorry, i lost interest in even viewing the video when i saw "flat bed scanning"

The tripod tutorial was the good part.
I’m interested in the topic because I want the best digital copies of film that I can get. I can’t have a ‘real’ dark room where I am these days. There are times I wonder what it would be like to use an 8 x 10 and adhere to strictly contact printing. No enlarger, just a contact frame and a few trays. That might work, but I’m not sure I’m up to carrying an 8 x 10 except adhering to the Brett Weston rule he adopted in his later years:”Iif it’s more than 100 yards from the road, it’s not photogenic.”

I started 51 years ago when I was 18. Seeing a print come up in the tray under a safelight, process wise, is a whole Nother level of experience compared to watching a print roll out of a digital printer. Right now, I have to have a hybrid workflow. Hopefully I’ll get back in a darkroom some pretty soon.

 

[GregY]

The tripod tutorial was the good part

G, I'm still happy with my Gitzo & Ries...... tutorial times have long passed.....

 

[villagephotog]

From my previous life as a large format photographer, I learned that leveling is one of the potential biggest time sinks.

Yes, and for me, it's not even primarily the time; it's the annoyance. Leveling a tripod using its legs is just tedious. Especially if you have to do it two or three times as you work small adjustments to a composition on uneven ground. It takes some of the fun out of taking pictures; I'm too old to put up with that.

A leveling base + 2-way head dramatically reduces all that messing around -- i.e. I find it to be a big simplifier, not a complicator. That setup has been the standard in the filmmaking industry for decades; they have literally hours to set up their shots, but nearly all of them use a leveling base (usually via a bowl-style spider) and a 2-way pan-tilt (plus fluid) head.

All that said, I haven't settled on the leveling base + 2-way head. When using it, I missed some of the flexibility of a ball head. So for now, I'm back to a ball head with the Arca-Swiss P0, which solves some of the shortcoming of traditional ball heads.

If I go back to the leveling base + 2-way head setup, I'll look for a system that allows me to see whether the base is level even with the camera mounted, and also does not require me to be looking straight down on the top of the leveling base to see the bubble level. Most leveling bases use a bullseye bubble level that you must look down on from above -- a problem if you are setting up the tripod for a high angle shot.

 

[BHuij]

Never did much care for ball heads under my Intrepid 4x5 (though I use them almost exclusively for smaller cameras).

For a while I was using a cheap no-name branded 2-way pan head with a handle that extended out from under the base of the camera. That was a major improvement over the ball head.

Eventually I got the Benro geared head. I've been using it for several years now for all my 4x5 work, and have been very happy with it. The precision with which you can make very small framing adjustments is great, and I find for the lightweight Intrepid, it's very much solid enough for my preferences.

 

[fdonadio]

Before I got the Gitzo 3-way head ‘Im using, my plan was to get a Manfrotto 438 leveling base and a pan-only head. I would use this setup only for large format, and my shooting style doesn’t benefit much from tilting.

Still I couldn’t find pan-only heads that can support over 10kg, and I don’t trust these Chinese stuff on evilBay that claim to support 15kg.

Any good recommendations?

 

[Vieri Bottazzini]

Just bought the following:

Leofoto LM-324CL X Version Tripod with 75mm Bowl+Platform

2024 New Release Reach for the top with the Leofoto LM-324CLX Summit Series Carbon Fiber Tripod. The brand-new design highlights upgraded angle stops meticulously crafted for enhanced ergonomic performance. The new angle stop design allows for one handed operation for convenience while ensuring...

leofotousa.com

Also LB-75 leveling base w/handle which fits 75mm bowl furnished with tripod

Also a late version, Bogen/Manfrotto head 3047 head which weighs almost 4 pounds, making it suitable for use with an 8 x 10, something I have practically no likelihood of ever doing. I didn’t realize the late versions were that much heavier than the one I had way back when I got my first zone six field camera so I’m looking for a pan/tilt head compatible with the above. I don’t need to turn the camera on its side like I might with a DSLR so I think a two way will work with the leveling base.

Payload is an Intrepid 4x5 and my heaviest lens is probably a 120 Fujinon.



Requesting recommendations. Pre-owned fine. TIA

I use and love Arca-Swiss heads, in particular the P0 Classic (which I reviewed here: https://www.vieribottazzini.com/2016/08/arca-swiss-p0-monoball-review.html) and, since moving to Large Format, I am now loving the P0 Hybrid even more - it retains the same genius concept of the P0, but has a geared top section which allows for single-hand fine tuning of amazing precision, which really helps when working with LF and having your head under a dark cloth

Hope this helps, best regards

Vieri

 

[villagephotog]

I use and love Arca-Swiss heads, in particular the P0 Classic (which I reviewed here: https://www.vieribottazzini.com/2016/08/arca-swiss-p0-monoball-review.html) and, since moving to Large Format, I am now loving the P0 Hybrid even more -

Vieri

I'm about to get deep into the weeds here, but I guess that's what this forum is for

I bought an Arca-Swiss P0 about 8-10 months ago and have been using it since. It's a great head; I like it a lot; and it does solve several issues that can be drawbacks to traditional ball heads.

Before I bought the Arca-Swiss, I spent a year or two experimenting with a leveling base + 2-way pan/tilt head, which is a system that also offers real benefits if keeping your camera level to the horizon is important to you. This system has become something of a trend among landscape photographers lately, as if it's a new discovery, but as I mentioned above, the filmmaking industry has been doing it for decades. Maintaining a level horizon (i.e. not creating any roll movement) while the camera moves in other axes is critical to them.

As much as I like the P0, the leveling base+2-way head does still have one useful advantage over it: you can stay level to the horizon when you are both panning and tilting the camera. So if you're pointed down a hill, or down at a mountain stream, you can pan left and right to adjust your composition without losing your level horizon.

With the P0, you can pan while maintaining a level horizon, but only if there is no tilt in the head. If the camera is tilted down or up, and you start panning, you'll quickly lose your level horizon. I have some workarounds for this, and the P0 has its own advantages over my leveling base+2-way head, so I'm happier with it for the moment. But I do miss the freedom to pan and tilt at will without worrying about inducing rotation in the roll axis and thus tilting the horizon.

The P0 Hybrid does eliminate this problem and gives the best of both worlds. I just haven't been willing to shell out the $1,000 for it.

 

[Vieri Bottazzini]

I'm about to get deep into the weeds here, but I guess that's what this forum is for

I bought an Arca-Swiss P0 about 8-10 months ago and have been using it since. It's a great head; I like it a lot; and it does solve several issues that can be drawbacks to traditional ball heads.

Before I bought the Arca-Swiss, I spent a year or two experimenting with a leveling base + 2-way pan/tilt head, which is a system that also offers real benefits if keeping your camera level to the horizon is important to you. This system has become something of a trend among landscape photographers lately, as if it's a new discovery, but as I mentioned above, the filmmaking industry has been doing it for decades. Maintaining a level horizon (i.e. not creating any roll movement) while the camera moves in other axes is critical to them.

As much as I like the P0, the leveling base+2-way head does still have one useful advantage over it: you can stay level to the horizon when you are both panning and tilting the camera. So if you're pointed down a hill, or down at a mountain stream, you can pan left and right to adjust your composition without losing your level horizon.

With the P0, you can pan while maintaining a level horizon, but only if there is no tilt in the head. If the camera is tilted down or up, and you start panning, you'll quickly lose your level horizon. I have some workarounds for this, and the P0 has its own advantages over my leveling base+2-way head, so I'm happier with it for the moment. But I do miss the freedom to pan and tilt at will without worrying about inducing rotation in the roll axis and thus tilting the horizon.

The P0 Hybrid does eliminate this problem and gives the best of both worlds. I just haven't been willing to shell out the $1,000 for it.

Indeed, your panning user case is the only one for which the P0 is not ideal. For me, since I don't do panoramas - either with digital and even more so with large format - the P0 is perfect; and, even if you needed to do a panorama, as long as you are levelled on both axis the P0 should work just fine. Plus, if you hike, as I do, the P0 has another great advantage: it's super small and light, no comparison with a levelling base + 2-way heads setup.

In the end, they are tools - and luckily nowadays there almost always is a solution, albeit a more or less convenient one, for each user case.

Best regards,

Vieri

 

[Tom Taylor]

For the past 15 years I've been using an Arca Swiss z1-sp with Acratech large leveling base riding on a Gitzo G 1348 for Pentax67II, Toyo 45AX and 810MII. Works perfectly except that the leveling base is a little soft when it comes to the 760 apo Nikkor. Seems to work fine with the 610 apo nikkor but the extension required for the 760 causes the base to sag.

Thomas

 

[Neil Poulsen]

I have and highly recommend the Arca Swiss D4 head. It's light-weight; yet, it will support any 4x5 camera. Given its design, it can operate both as an excellent geared head, and as a reasonable ball head as well. The downside, they go for about $1000 new on EBay. (Well worth it to me.)

HOWEVER: Leofoto offers, what looks to be, a D4 copy that they call a G4 for much less cost.

Leofoto G4 Geared Head Camera Tripod Ball Head w Plate Arca Swiss Compatible | eBay

Leofoto G4. Leofoto G4 Geared Ball Head with Plate Arca Swiss Compatible. QR Plate: NP-60. Height: 108mm.

www.ebay.com

One especially nice feature of this head, it has both a 360 degree base, and a 360 degree top, so that once that top has been geared to be level, it can operate as a panoramic head.

Please note that, I have no association with the seller in the above link.

 

[Vieri Bottazzini]

I have and highly recommend the Arca Swiss D4 head. It's light-weight; yet, it will support any 4x5 camera. Given its design, it can operate both as an excellent geared head, and as a reasonable ball head as well. The downside, they go for about $1000 new on EBay. (Well worth it to me.)

HOWEVER: Leofoto offers, what looks to be, a D4 copy that they call a G4 for much less cost.

Leofoto G4 Geared Head Camera Tripod Ball Head w Plate Arca Swiss Compatible | eBay

Leofoto G4. Leofoto G4 Geared Ball Head with Plate Arca Swiss Compatible. QR Plate: NP-60. Height: 108mm.

www.ebay.com

One especially nice feature of this head, it has both a 360 degree base, and a 360 degree top, so that once that top has been geared to be level, it can operate as a panoramic head.

Please note that, I have no association with the seller in the above link.

The D4 is an amazing head! I have seen a Leofoto copy and while the design & working is similar, the precision in the geared movements felt much less so - I am not an engineer, but best I can describe it is that the gears in the Leofoto felt "bigger" and movements much less precise (apologies for the lack of a more "technical" description).

Best regards,

Vieri

 

[DREW WILEY]

I'm on record for advocating going headless - in other words, directly bolting the view camera bed to the platform top of the tripod (indicating a tripod with a reasonably large top). By far the most stable method, and minus redundant head weight. "Legs only" adjustment goes very quickly once one is accustomed to it. My Ries wooden tripods are my favorite leg sets; but I have lighter CF equivalents too, for sake of long haul backpacking.

I use a decent Gitzo pan/tilt head for most MF work; but gave up on heads altogether for LF applications decades ago. And I've been in many precarious places adjusting the system headless, just like early surveyors. I would have donated my big ole cast Bogen/Manfrotto 3047 head to the Coast Guard for an anchor, except I repurposed it to my copy stand, which is built to withstand the next big earthquake (I'm within walking distance of an infamous fault).

Fred Picker's recommendations weren't always ideal. I initially got suckered into one of his modified survey tripods, which wasn't all that good to begin with, and was poorly modified. And it was clumsy to adjust. I later sold surveying gear, and if you go that route to save money, you want a fiberglass clad wooden one, US made (avoid Chinese knockoff ones like the plague). Then just swap the 5/8-11 turnbolt for an ordinary photo 3/8-16 or 1/4-20 turnbolt.

Otherwise, these new half-ball devices seem to be the smartest thing to come along in quite awhile. I don't personally need one; but they must be a lot more stable than wobble-bobble ball heads.

I'm not against finely geared gadgets. I just don't want to carry them around. My biggest 8x10 color enlarger (14 ft tall) has the main focus rail control fitted into a machined forged bronze WWII Naval artillery sight mount, with precision helical gearing in three directions. That would probably cost over $10,000 to machine today; but I got it for free military surplus.

Thanks for sharing that video link, Grafmatic; it seems to be one of the more realistic ones. I happen to own a sample of the first CF tripods ever marketed - the original Gitzo CF Reporter. It's held up superbly all these decades under the most demanding outdoor usage. But a friend who bought the more recent Gitzo equivalent (which has thinner ply) snapped off two of its legs slipping on a stone while crossing a creek. I ended up whittling two whitebark pine limb prosthetic legs for it, which were duct taped onto the remaining part of each leg. At least that allowed him to keep shooting. We were a week's walk back in, far from even a trail.

But I'd have trouble endorsing any tripod which has screws or fittings capable of rusting around saltwater, like that video endorses. At the very least, I'd replace the susceptible parts themselves with stainless equivalents.