Tri-X and Xtol

Thomas Bertilsson · May 1, 2016

ColColt said:
I decided to give it a try and ordered 5L from B&H Photo along with some extra brown bottles. I thought I had enough of those but yo never know when they may be needed. Look to try this first 1:1 with Tri-X
as the times for using it straight look pretty short at 75 degrees...my usual temperature.

The very best thing about Xtol is how it works when light strikes the subject directly. It's almost difficult to process negatives so that they have unprintable highlights, but it gives so much shadow speed. In low contrast lighting is it's most visible limitation, where sometimes people accuse it of yielding somewhat flat results. But it's better if you find that out for yourself. Have fun! Xtol is, to my mind, one of the very best all-round developers there are, it excels in the shadow speed department, yields very fine grain and sharp negatives, and it doesn't really do anything wrong. If you print in a darkroom I think you'll really like what you'll get with Tri-X after you have your process dialed in.

Ronald Moravec · May 2, 2016

Sirius Glass said:
If you shoot 35mm film, save the clipped of leaders from earlier batches to test ANY developer before developing the next roll of film. I found that I get much better results from replenished XTOL that putting my film in soup. Even a good Kosher chicken soup will not work as well as XTOL.

At the time I was going around with Kodak and Xtol, I asked the question if there is any home test for activity of Xtol. The answer is NO. You can perhaps tell if it is dead or alive, but not much more. Do not argue with me, argue with Kodak.

Echoes · May 2, 2016

I have been using XTOL for a year or so as my main developer for almost every film, really like it with Tri-X, TMY and FP4. I mix it with tap water and no problems so far, the last mix I had lasted me for around 8 months in bottles with no air and in a dark enviroment, one question, why do you develop at 75F insted of 68F? I have always used 68F, is there any advantage?

Kawaiithulhu · May 2, 2016

Echoes said:
why do you develop at 75F insted of 68F

Not the person you asked, but I can answer for myself. At my place for a large part of the year it's warmer than 68, which means to keep a proper temperature would involve ice while 75 is easily maintainable with just a little hot water bath.
There is no advantage and a little disadvantage in that shorter development times require better timing and technique to keep each batch similar.

Andrew Kleinfeld · May 2, 2016

I mix it with distilled water, decant it into well sealed 16 ounce bottles (the old-type Grolsch beer bottles, filled to the seal), each used full strength and discarded, and have never had a problem, even with Xtol over a year old since mixing. D76 is great, but my negatives are even better with Xtol (except Rodinal is better for ISO 25 and 50 film). You can get good bottles with the same kind of seal at a place that sells home brewing supplies. I've used Xtol since it came out, and have never had the failures other people describe.

baachitraka · May 2, 2016

Kawaiithulhu said:
Pyrocat-HD tests out well in that regard, plus it's continuous agitation Jobo/btzs tubes friendly without oxidizing itself to death if you work that way.

I am trying to find a developer that gives normal contrast with Foma Retropan 320 soft. Have seen some sample which has exhibited very nice grain but rather very soft.

removed account4 · May 2, 2016

Thomas Bertilsson said:
jnanian is correct above in that iron deposits in the water is what seems to kill Xtol. I believe that can easily be tested for.

last time i had a baseline water test done it was IDK 15 years ago
wasn't too expensive, maybe 100-140$ ..

Thomas Bertilsson · May 2, 2016

jnanian said:
last time i had a baseline water test done it was IDK 15 years ago
wasn't too expensive, maybe 100-140$ ..

Jon, you can do it for eight dollars yourself. The below kit gives you a good overview of your local water quality.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/PurTest-Iron-Hardness-Plus-Kit-702/202708289

ColColt · May 2, 2016

In low contrast lighting is it's most visible limitation, where sometimes people accuse it of yielding somewhat flat results. But it's better if you find that out for yourself.

So, you're saying contrasty light conditions is where it works best?

The primary reason I switched to 75 degrees is two fold. I'm on blood thinners-three to be exact. I keep the house at 75 degrees year round. If I've made of stop bath, fixer, etc. when I get ready to use it it's right where I want it. The jugs of distilled water are at that temperature as well. In the winter I can tweak the faucet water to 75 degrees easy but in the spring/summer months the coldest from the tap for washing, etc. is around 75 degrees at best-sometimes 76 which is close enough to developer and other chemistry temps. It's a big pain to try and get tap water at 68 degrees in any weather other than winter.

removed account4 · May 2, 2016

Thomas Bertilsson said:
Jon, you can do it for eight dollars yourself. The below kit gives you a good overview of your local water quality.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/PurTest-Iron-Hardness-Plus-Kit-702/202708289

thanks thomas !

i didn't even know these kits existed.
shows you what a few years will do.
all the more reason to do it ..
the test is virtually free compared to 100$+
john

Thomas Bertilsson · May 2, 2016

ColColt said:
So, you're saying contrasty light conditions is where it works best?

Yes.

baachitraka · May 2, 2016

It has pronounced shoulder. So the highlights are held very nicely.

ColColt · May 2, 2016

Does it do well with overcast conditions as well as with bright, sunny days?

Thomas Bertilsson · May 2, 2016

ColColt said:
Does it do well with overcast conditions as well as with bright, sunny days?

It does exceedingly well on bright sunny days. When the light hits the subject directly, Xtol is amazing.
For overcast conditions, it does OK, especially if you use the developer stock, but some people find the results a little flat.

Sirius Glass · May 2, 2016

ColColt said:
Does it do well with overcast conditions as well as with bright, sunny days?

Yes. Some may want to open the lens half an f/stop, but not me.

mgphoto · May 2, 2016

I have been using the same replenished batch of Xtol in a 3.5gal. deep tank for over 10 years. I am constantly amazed at what a hearty and forgiving developer it is. Seriously, I sometimes go several months between developing batches and have never had a problem with the activity of the developer. The only problem I have encountered is something coming out of solution and coating the bottom of the tank between developing sessions. Once thoroughly mixed again, there seems to be no effect on development. I do occasionally, transfer it out, filter it, and clean the tank, but the sediment always eventually comes back.

ColColt · May 2, 2016

I usually shoot Tri-X at 200-250 with HC-110 Dil H. Ditto HP-5. I guess a little experimentation with Xtol is in order.

Sirius Glass · May 2, 2016

ColColt said:
I usually shoot Tri-X at 200-250 with HC-110 Dil H. Ditto HP-5. I guess a little experimentation with Xtol is in order.

Time to shoot a box speed and use replenished XTOL. It will open your eyes to better tonality and sharpness.

ColColt · May 2, 2016

Replenished? I'll have to read up on that. I've never used replenished developer.

Kawaiithulhu · May 2, 2016

ColColt said:
Replenished? I'll have to read up on that. I've never used replenished developer.

It's just a fancy way to say that you run a few rolls through a brand new batch of mixed soup and then forevermore after toss out 70-100ml of that liter and keep adding fresh stock too bring back to 1L each time you do a roll.

The replenished version will have to be tested for development times again, but should remain stable and more controllable.

MattKing · May 2, 2016

MattKing said:
Part of my preference (for replenished X-Tol) is definitely due to my preference for the workflow. In my temperate clime, I'm always working at room temperature, it is easy to use, the slight restraining effect of the process helps nearly guarantee easily printable highlights, there is no longer any concern about using a full tank for a small amount of film and it is incredibly economical.

ColColt said:
Replenished? I'll have to read up on that. I've never used replenished developer.

Kawaiithulhu said:
It's just a fancy way to say that you run a few rolls through a brand new batch of mixed soup and then forevermore after toss out 70-100ml of that liter and keep adding fresh stock too bring back to 1L each time you do a roll.

The replenished version will have to be tested for development times again, but should remain stable and more controllable.

At the risk of quoting myself....

baachitraka · May 3, 2016

We can keep the replenished system running no matter whether you develop film everyday or once in a month.

This system will last for very long time if you replenishing schedule right.

70ml - 100ml, once in two-weeks if no film is developed
- or -
70ml -100ml for every roll developed.

Other developers like replenished D-76 and its variants work similar.

slm · May 5, 2016

So I've just recently mixed a fresh 5L of Xtol, to get started in a replenished workflow, I would:

Take 500ML, store in a separate container (My single roll tank holds 500ml i think).
Develop a roll with it
Keep 400ML of the developer used, and add in 100ml from the 5L.
Reuse the replenished 500ml next time i want to develop.

Is that correct ? This also doesn't allow you to try different dilutions though, right ?

Thanks
Steven

MattKing · May 5, 2016

nextreme said:
So I've just recently mixed a fresh 5L of Xtol, to get started in a replenished workflow, I would:

Take 500ML, store in a separate container (My single roll tank holds 500ml i think).
Develop a roll with it
Keep 400ML of the developer used, and add in 100ml from the 5L.
Reuse the replenished 500ml next time i want to develop.

Is that correct ? This also doesn't allow you to try different dilutions though, right ?

Thanks
Steven

Pretty close.

I prefer using a larger bottle for my working solution. I'm currently using a 1.75 litre bottle, and my largest commonly used tank takes 1.0 litres of solution. If your tank takes 500 ml, I would suggest a litre bottle.

I pour my developer into a measuring graduate, for transfer to my developing tank. While the film is developing, I pour the right amount of replenishing liquid into the bottle I use for storing working solution. Kodak recommends 70 ml of X-Tol for each roll developed. I would suggest starting at 70 ml or possibly 80 ml per roll.

When development is finished, I pour the developer out of the tank into the measuring graduate and start the stop bath session.

While the film is in the stop bath, I pour the recently used developer back into the working solution storage bottle. I stop when the bottle is full to close to the brim and discard the small amount that remains.

This ensures that the working solution and replenisher are well mixed, and that the working solution bottle is well filled - i.e. there is little air space on top.

It is true that you are committed to a single, high quality dilution, however the economy of using it replenished removes one reason for higher dilution.

By the way, I always use all my chemicals at ambient room temperature. I just adjust development time accordingly.

ColColt · May 5, 2016

Getting ready to develop my first roll of Tri-X with this developer tomorrow. I'm going to use 1:1 since straight will make developing time too short at 75 degrees. I'll try 6 minutes and hope I hit it on the head with the time.

Tri-X and Xtol

Thomas Bertilsson

Ronald Moravec

Echoes

Kawaiithulhu

Andrew Kleinfeld

baachitraka

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Thomas Bertilsson

ColColt

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ColColt

Thomas Bertilsson

Sirius Glass

mgphoto

ColColt

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Kawaiithulhu

MattKing

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