There sure is.
To repair or not repair A12 film backs, that is the question.
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There sure is.
So, Bob... in your disassembly were there any clues as to what may have been causing the weird side of your negative frame?
OP
OP
About 2/3rds of the way down there is one small piece of the mylar was split and was flopping out. This could account for the comment-like leaks that I was getting. The foam portion of the seal looked to be all right to my eyes and was in one whole piece. I was expecting something to crumble upon removing the plate but nothing did. I looked all around the pressure plate where the film goes in front of and I didn't see any obstructions or anything out of the ordinary. One thing I have noticed with both of my film backs is that if I look at the film holder on its side, with the film clamp to the left of me, the film pressure plate is very slightly off leveled Maybe not even 1 degree of an angle, counter-clockwise. I am guessing that the pressure plane flattens out when the film is applied and inserted back into the shell? I can take a photo of this if anyone is interested?
My concern now isn't with putting in the new light seals into this back. I know that I can do this. it is trying to mate the back onto the camera. I tried putting it back on after reassembling it and it will not attach to the camera. I compared the two holes of both backs that I have and there is nothing blocking them so the two hooks on the back of the camera should insert into those holes and click when the magazine goes on. When I try to apply the film back to the camera it wants to try to connect because I can hear it "faint-clicking"" as I gently push inward to try to connect it. I will not force anything and will be careful with.
OP
OP
It looks to me that yaw was introduced in your back, (perhaps from a fall?) and it needs reforming.
What do the others think is going on?
I’d seriously assume that’s your problem with the negative.
OP
OP
As far as I know I have never dropped any of my film backs. My other film back has this same angle going on. I haven't heard back yet from others about it.
I went to the post office this morning to ask questions about sending the equipment out. Shipping is going to be costly because I have a big hard case with foam that I will be including when I get the box to package it in. Plus the insurance. I was told to find out what the cost for my equipment is and they can find out the insurance rate.
I'm still nervous about sending this out. Unfortunately I don't have wheels. If this servicing place is where I think it may be then it isn't that far away from me. A little past Northfield, somewhere up in Warwick, I think. I am drafting up a letter to the repair person to inquire about his services.
OP
OP
And if so then that will increase the cost. I think I should send each piece of equipment one at a time maybe.
Bob, I must retract this comment as I just looked at my A12 backs, which I know are in proper working condition, and they are the same. Never noticed that and never before have i ever seen film rollers angled like that. My apologies.
Regarding sending out gear… I can’t address your anxieties but what other choice do you really have? Suggest bubblewrap and cardboard box rather than your storage cases for shipping. It will be okay. Use the USPS large fixed rate box. Free box (and a good one, too) plus tracking included in the price. The shipping cost is just part of the coat of keeping your gear maintained. Embrace and accept it. Ship sooner than later since shipping prices just keep going up.
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OP
OP
No worries at all.
Ahhh: the film clamp is pushing it down. So now my question would be if the clamp is in the released position when the holder is inserted into the shell and locked then what is the use of the clamp being in the down position when the key is turned at 10 o'clock?
OP
OP
Bob, I must retract this comment as I just looked at my A12 backs, which I know are in proper working condition, and they are the same. Never noticed that and never before have i ever seen film rollers angled like that. My apologies.
Regarding sending out gear… I can’t address your anxieties but what other choice do you really have? Suggest bubblewrap and cardboard box rather than your storage cases for shipping. It will be okay. Use the USPS large fixed rate box. Free box (and a good one, too) plus tracking included in the price. The shipping cost is just part of the coat of keeping your gear maintained. Embrace and accept it. Ship sooner than later since shipping prices just keep going up.
This is what I brought out from storage. Bought this in the 90s. This is what I was going to use. My thought was if this was in another box then if there are bumps or bangs along the way then my camera will not feel a thing, loool. It is heavy and would be a big cost issue with shipping.
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Sorry, I'm a bit tired, so if you've already solved this and gotten your back back together, this may be out of date. If not--well, I think I can help you fix your situation. Remember, unless you lose a part--don't do that!--it's really hard to mess anything up on a Hasselblad back, particularly if you're just replacing a light seal.
In your photo, I've numbered all of the parts that could possibly fall out when you're doing this operation:
1 - This is the lock that secures the back onto the camera. In this photo, it is in the correct position. Make sure you put it back this way, and make sure the spring is connected at both ends. Push the release button, and make sure it slides back and forth--it will do so with a dark slide in, or if part 2 is *not* in place.
2 - This bit is in *exactly* the correct position in the photo. It will very probably fall out when you take off the plate--looks like yours did. To me, this is probably the trickiest thing to get back right, and to keep from falling back out when you re-install. You do have to use just a little bit of pressure when putting it back in place--don't bend it, but you do have to push on it to get it to flex just a little to get it to go back into the receptacle for it, because *the whole body of the thing acts like a spring*. The little tab facing left at the top (in the photo) must be pushing against the lip, as it is in the photo. The tooth at the bottom must be in the semi-circular receptacle, again as in the photo. The entire body of it must be entirely within the channel made for it. What this bit does is, when you insert the dark slide all the way, it will push up the tooth at the bottom (remember, with everything screwed securely back in place, the plate will trap it from popping out of the channel it's in) so that the tab on the left side of it (in the photo) no longer butts up against the opposing tab on part 1. See, if the dark slide is out, and you try to take off the back, those two tabs pointing at each other on parts 1 and 2 in the photo ram into each other, which keeps you from moving the release button far enough to take off the back--so you can't remove it without the darkslide protecting the film. When the darkslide is in place, the tab on part 2 will be out of the way of the tab on part 1, and that tab will slide into the little slot you can see below the tab on part 2--and now you can move the release button far enough for the back to pop off. This is a *pain* to keep in place when you're putting the plate back on--while using the dark slide to keep your new light seal in place, you also have to use the plate itself to keep that tab from popping up and out when you go to put everything back together. You'll probably fail the first few times, but after a bit you'll master it.
3 - This is the one thing in this photo that is *not* correct. The little V-shaped spring in the yellow circle is not doing its job. You have to bend that to an even more accute angle--its function is to push up the triangular tooth on Part 3, so it projects into the path of the dark slide; right now, one side of it is *under* part 3, instead of up against the bottom (right, in the photo) edge of part 3--one side of the spring should push on the lip on the back (on the right in the photo), the other side should push on the side of part 3 (on the left), forcing the tooth upward into the dark slide path. Here's how this part works: the hole on part 3 fits on that peg in the middle. With the dark slide out, that spring pushes the tooth up into the dark slide slot, but more importantly, the *other* end pivots down (right, in the photo) and allows the tab on the body to push on the tab in the back (which you can see uncovered in the photo), letting you fire the shutter and telling the back you've made an exposure. When you put the dark slide in, as it hits the tooth it pushes it down and out of the way, so the tab at the opposite end pivots up and covers the tab in the back--and prevents you from accidentally firing the shutter and making an exposure with the dark slide in.
For parts 2 and 3, you have to use the *plate* to hold them in place when you go to re-assembling. You'll actually hold the darkslide in place tightly against the plate when re-assembling, held as if it were inserted halfway, and try to lay it as evenly and flatly as possible across the back, which also must be lying flat and steady (this is described and shown very clearly in the instructions for the kit I recommended earlier). The dark slide you're tightly holding against the plate will be used to make sure the light seal folds properly and stays in its slot, and you can use the plate to make sure that parts 2 and 3 don't move. Again, the first time you do this, it's almost inevitable that parts 2 and/or 3 (and maybe the spring on part 3) will pop out of place. And you will do a lot of cussing. But eventually, with practice, you'll get the hang of it and be able to do it the first or second time, every time.
Basically, when you get the back put back together, if you can't put the back on your camera or can't take it off, *or* if you can take it off the camera with no dark slide inserted, part 2 is probably not in the right place. If you can't tighten the plate down flush using the screws, you can't insert the dark slide all the way, you can't make an exposure even with the dark slide out, or you can make one with the dark slide in (or any combination of the above), it's probably because part 3 is not in the right place and/or the spring is not pushing on it.
4 - You shouldn't have to mess with these, they're normally held in place by a bit of adhesive. These, with the outer shell of the back, form the slot that the "feet" on the bottom of the camera fit into. I have seen some, though, that are sitting in there loose (again, like the other parts, the plate when it's screwed down provides most of the force holding them in place). As they're kind of small, don't let them fall out and get away from you.
Speaking of small parts like springs, screws, and these tabs. Before doing *any* work involving tiny parts, what I do is this: I usually work over a white towel, as that tends to help restrict the movement of small parts, and makes them easy to see. I also thoroughly vacuum all around my work area and anywhere nearby that a small part might catapult itself to. I then fully empty the vacuum bag/chamber. By doing this, I make sure there is no debris lying around or within the vacuum cleaner that might interfere with me seeing said missing small parts. If I *do* lose something and can't find it visually, I just run the vacuum over all the area I cleaned earlier, and then check inside the vacuum cleaner for it. I can't tell you *how* many times this has helped me find screws, springs, washers, circlips, ball bearings, etc., etc. When I've needed it, *it has worked every time*. Some people use a magnet for this--but then, some parts aren't magnetic, the vacuum cleaner covers a far larger area, and most camera parts (although use discretion here) will survive passage through *most* vacuum cleaners undamaged.
Hope that makes sense and is helpful!
In your photo, I've numbered all of the parts that could possibly fall out when you're doing this operation:
1 - This is the lock that secures the back onto the camera. In this photo, it is in the correct position. Make sure you put it back this way, and make sure the spring is connected at both ends. Push the release button, and make sure it slides back and forth--it will do so with a dark slide in, or if part 2 is *not* in place.
2 - This bit is in *exactly* the correct position in the photo. It will very probably fall out when you take off the plate--looks like yours did. To me, this is probably the trickiest thing to get back right, and to keep from falling back out when you re-install. You do have to use just a little bit of pressure when putting it back in place--don't bend it, but you do have to push on it to get it to flex just a little to get it to go back into the receptacle for it, because *the whole body of the thing acts like a spring*. The little tab facing left at the top (in the photo) must be pushing against the lip, as it is in the photo. The tooth at the bottom must be in the semi-circular receptacle, again as in the photo. The entire body of it must be entirely within the channel made for it. What this bit does is, when you insert the dark slide all the way, it will push up the tooth at the bottom (remember, with everything screwed securely back in place, the plate will trap it from popping out of the channel it's in) so that the tab on the left side of it (in the photo) no longer butts up against the opposing tab on part 1. See, if the dark slide is out, and you try to take off the back, those two tabs pointing at each other on parts 1 and 2 in the photo ram into each other, which keeps you from moving the release button far enough to take off the back--so you can't remove it without the darkslide protecting the film. When the darkslide is in place, the tab on part 2 will be out of the way of the tab on part 1, and that tab will slide into the little slot you can see below the tab on part 2--and now you can move the release button far enough for the back to pop off. This is a *pain* to keep in place when you're putting the plate back on--while using the dark slide to keep your new light seal in place, you also have to use the plate itself to keep that tab from popping up and out when you go to put everything back together. You'll probably fail the first few times, but after a bit you'll master it.
3 - This is the one thing in this photo that is *not* correct. The little V-shaped spring in the yellow circle is not doing its job. You have to bend that to an even more accute angle--its function is to push up the triangular tooth on Part 3, so it projects into the path of the dark slide; right now, one side of it is *under* part 3, instead of up against the bottom (right, in the photo) edge of part 3--one side of the spring should push on the lip on the back (on the right in the photo), the other side should push on the side of part 3 (on the left), forcing the tooth upward into the dark slide path. Here's how this part works: the hole on part 3 fits on that peg in the middle. With the dark slide out, that spring pushes the tooth up into the dark slide slot, but more importantly, the *other* end pivots down (right, in the photo) and allows the tab on the body to push on the tab in the back (which you can see uncovered in the photo), letting you fire the shutter and telling the back you've made an exposure. When you put the dark slide in, as it hits the tooth it pushes it down and out of the way, so the tab at the opposite end pivots up and covers the tab in the back--and prevents you from accidentally firing the shutter and making an exposure with the dark slide in.
For parts 2 and 3, you have to use the *plate* to hold them in place when you go to re-assembling. You'll actually hold the darkslide in place tightly against the plate when re-assembling, held as if it were inserted halfway, and try to lay it as evenly and flatly as possible across the back, which also must be lying flat and steady (this is described and shown very clearly in the instructions for the kit I recommended earlier). The dark slide you're tightly holding against the plate will be used to make sure the light seal folds properly and stays in its slot, and you can use the plate to make sure that parts 2 and 3 don't move. Again, the first time you do this, it's almost inevitable that parts 2 and/or 3 (and maybe the spring on part 3) will pop out of place. And you will do a lot of cussing. But eventually, with practice, you'll get the hang of it and be able to do it the first or second time, every time.
Basically, when you get the back put back together, if you can't put the back on your camera or can't take it off, *or* if you can take it off the camera with no dark slide inserted, part 2 is probably not in the right place. If you can't tighten the plate down flush using the screws, you can't insert the dark slide all the way, you can't make an exposure even with the dark slide out, or you can make one with the dark slide in (or any combination of the above), it's probably because part 3 is not in the right place and/or the spring is not pushing on it.
4 - You shouldn't have to mess with these, they're normally held in place by a bit of adhesive. These, with the outer shell of the back, form the slot that the "feet" on the bottom of the camera fit into. I have seen some, though, that are sitting in there loose (again, like the other parts, the plate when it's screwed down provides most of the force holding them in place). As they're kind of small, don't let them fall out and get away from you.
Speaking of small parts like springs, screws, and these tabs. Before doing *any* work involving tiny parts, what I do is this: I usually work over a white towel, as that tends to help restrict the movement of small parts, and makes them easy to see. I also thoroughly vacuum all around my work area and anywhere nearby that a small part might catapult itself to. I then fully empty the vacuum bag/chamber. By doing this, I make sure there is no debris lying around or within the vacuum cleaner that might interfere with me seeing said missing small parts. If I *do* lose something and can't find it visually, I just run the vacuum over all the area I cleaned earlier, and then check inside the vacuum cleaner for it. I can't tell you *how* many times this has helped me find screws, springs, washers, circlips, ball bearings, etc., etc. When I've needed it, *it has worked every time*. Some people use a magnet for this--but then, some parts aren't magnetic, the vacuum cleaner covers a far larger area, and most camera parts (although use discretion here) will survive passage through *most* vacuum cleaners undamaged.
Hope that makes sense and is helpful!
OP
OP
Thank you for taking the time out to outline these steps. This has been trying but I know I can do this. I will print out these instructions. I am taking my time with this.
To my personal but rather poor experience, this looks quite normal (I checked with mine).
As I see it, this was a little 'trick' by Hasselblad: get the film and pressure plate held down, by a kind of 'hook' on the open side, so the holder can be easily inserted in the shell.
And once the locking key turned so it can fold in and the holder is secured, the whole hook-pressure plate-film returns to a flexible and flat system.
Try to have the film run, by turning that little ribbed wheel, when that hook is down, it will not happen that supple.
Don't forget that the Hasselblad designers were very resourceful, but sometimes ventured into a bit of overengineering (which isn't that bad after all)...
I don't like these rubber foam filled cases, as this foam always disintegrates and releases fine and nasty dust which gets into the camera gear!
Hasselblad had a very well made nut-brown leather case with sturdy dividers (model #511), rather costly but elegant, sometimes you can find one used on eBuy (for around €500.-)...
I don't have one as I find it a bit superfluous, but a friend has, and it is very fine but rather heavy.
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I think you're referring to what Canon used to put in their hard lens cases. None of the modern foams used in cases will go that far in a foreseeable future. I have a case bought in 1993, a Pelican, and there is zero deterioration to the foam. I bought a Mamiya RB67 kit in a case from its own era, some 1980's and same there. Whatever Canon used, it must have been some ill engineered product, but I'd say it's rare to see in most other products that use foam.
I never had a Canon, not a the camera nor their accessories, I refer to some, even renown brand, third party aluminium cases I used to have.
OP
OP
I can't remember who the maker of that case was. I ordered it from Porter's Camera Store back in the late 90s. Porter's was awesome and they sold some unique items too. I would get their store newspaper through the mail. I even bought many of their mystery boxes. A grab bag full of little things and there were some interesting and really cool and useful items in them. I miss that place.
OP
OP
Easy to insert and stabilizes the film before entering the shell. Nice and simple.
OP
OP
I didn't think about that. You're right. Someone could be not thinking or cavalier and be like "it can take it" and then it gets slammed about.
The post office guy did say I could use a camera bag in a box. That might be the better option. Plus the weight will be less.
Thanks Don for bringing this up
MattKing
Moderator
Those aluminum cases are not for protecting against the sort of damage that results from shipping.
They are designed more to protect against the sort of damage that results from rough handling at photographic work sites - where the size and weight of a package isn't as important.
You want to ask advice from a packing company - well cushioned inner and outer boxes are more likely to work.
They are designed more to protect against the sort of damage that results from rough handling at photographic work sites - where the size and weight of a package isn't as important.
You want to ask advice from a packing company - well cushioned inner and outer boxes are more likely to work.
OP
OP
Thanks Matt. I will go the route that you mentioned.
Good grief… a Hasselblad back really isn’t that dainty. It would likely survive shipping in a padded envelope. It was designed for heavy-duty professional service, not a mid-afternoon tea party…
I’m really confused by the anxiety about shipping when contrasted to the exuberance about taking it apart without full knowledge of how to put it back together.
This is not intended to be mean-spirited but, rather, just an outsider observation.
I’m really confused by the anxiety about shipping when contrasted to the exuberance about taking it apart without full knowledge of how to put it back together.
This is not intended to be mean-spirited but, rather, just an outsider observation.
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In the three years I have been doing business, I have had hundreds of cameras shipped to me, and shipped back to the customer. 95% of my shipping is done via USPS Priority Mail. Not once has a camera gone missing in transit, nor been damaged in any way. And you'd be shocked to see how poorly some people package their equipment when they ship it to me. You'd think they were putting out the trash, not mailing a piece of photographic equipment.
And as Brian has said, an A12 back isn't made of glass. You could put it in the smallest box you could find with absolutely no padding of any kind and it would be fine. You're worrying about this way more than is warranted, Bob.
As for the virtue of repairing something like a Hasselblad film magazine: if you don't repair what is repairable, then that's one less working A12 back in the world, and we all know these are not being made anymore. So every time one of these is taken out of service, the pool of functional equipment shrinks by one. If you can afford to repair it - do it. If you can't - give it to someone who can afford to.
And as Brian has said, an A12 back isn't made of glass. You could put it in the smallest box you could find with absolutely no padding of any kind and it would be fine. You're worrying about this way more than is warranted, Bob.
As for the virtue of repairing something like a Hasselblad film magazine: if you don't repair what is repairable, then that's one less working A12 back in the world, and we all know these are not being made anymore. So every time one of these is taken out of service, the pool of functional equipment shrinks by one. If you can afford to repair it - do it. If you can't - give it to someone who can afford to.
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