TMAX400 120 watermark defect - current status?

[JW PHOTO]

I agree with Mr. R.Gould in that Kodak should have made an announcement and not just trough John Sexton, directly or indirectly. I'd like to also know if Kodak recalled said lot numbers from all retailers shelves? Maybe we'll never know, but I'm asking my local retailer the next time I go to buy film and then I'll form my own opinion on this matter.

 

[pentaxuser]

I agree with Mr. R.Gould in that Kodak should have made an announcement and not just trough John Sexton, directly or indirectly. I'd like to also know if Kodak recalled said lot numbers from all retailers shelves? Maybe we'll never know, but I'm asking my local retailer the next time I go to buy film and then I'll form my own opinion on this matter.

Thanks, let us know what the retailer says.

pentaxuser

 

[johnsexton]

John Sexton logged on here to post what he found. It was out of fairness to the broad community of film users that was the reason he did this, not because he wants to drive a knife through the heart of Kodak Alaris. He would not do that, he depends on the products like many of us do.

Thank you for sharing those accurate thoughts. I love film photography, and have used, and continue to use Kodak Professional films for all my photography. I depend on their products, and want them to continue to be manufactured to the same high quality that I have experienced consistently for more than four decade for many years to come.

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

I got HP5+ 120 in my local pharmacy, am I going to mail order?

Yeap, my local Boots had them in stock on Sunday.

 

[tomfrh]

Yes it would be good if they made an announcement. I suspect they're still trying to figure out what it going on.

 

[removed account4]

The problem I see at this time is the remaining stock still on shelves at those who sell Kodak 120 film.

Discussing the cause of the problem, at this stage, is probably moot. It happened, it got recognized, the problem was admitted to. Now we will see how quickly the bad film will flush through the dealer system... I'm glad I switched to Ilford HP5+, even though I find TMY-2 a superior film.

no kidding
it is strange that after 6 months or more
of people complaining of this problem
that they never did a total recall of ALL the 120 film
and replaced stuff bought, owned and made screwy images.

its not like they don't make enough / roll to cover the cost of a recall.
now, unfortunately this problem of theirs is synonymous with their film
and the fact they dragged their feet for 1/2 year+ to deal with the problem isn't good.

i've been self employed / sales/retail &c since i was 11 ... if i sold a faulty product and didn't
deal with its consequences i'd have lost all my customers.
its good its not ALL alaris-film .. talk about a hard to remove stain.

 

[Xmas]

Again, yes, the situation with these products has arrived at a critical stage in terms of how much more of this possibly suspect product could be sold and used by unsuspecting customers from here on out. So it really is go time for Kodak to make a PR move. John Sexton is a friend of mine and I know for a fact

I apologise for offending but 'Ratty' OP's was months ago, and Kodaks response ok then.
Today it is risible.
I won't be buying 120 with potential surprise built in ads for a while.
I don't use 135 Kodak cause it does not load in my camera.
Bulk and cine is too expensive for comment.
I'm hoping Kodak luvvies use it all up soon.
And I do know Kodak pensioners.
It is important if you care for you to tell Kodak cause I'm not nice enough to care.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

...Its not as if Kodak Alaris can go elsewhere to buy Kodak film.

Are you privy to the agreement(s) between Eastman Kodak and Kodak Alaris? If not, you can't know whether Kodak Alaris has the right to source film elsewhere and market it using the Kodak brand, now or at some point in the future. I don't think anyone outside those two companies will know unless and until film that carries a "made in" statement which reveals some other manufacturing location shows up in the distribution chain.

 

[RattyMouse]

Are you privy to the agreement(s) between Eastman Kodak and Kodak Alaris? If not, you can't know whether Kodak Alaris has the right to source film elsewhere and market it using the Kodak brand, now or at some point in the future. I don't think anyone outside those two companies will know unless and until film that carries a "made in" statement which reveals some other manufacturing location shows up in the distribution chain.

It would be a shock of epic proportions if Alaris started rebranding Ilford or Fujifilm film, dont you think?

 

[MattKing]

Are you privy to the agreement(s) between Eastman Kodak and Kodak Alaris? If not, you can't know whether Kodak Alaris has the right to source film elsewhere and market it using the Kodak brand, now or at some point in the future. I don't think anyone outside those two companies will know unless and until film that carries a "made in" statement which reveals some other manufacturing location shows up in the distribution chain.

Thanks Sal - my post was worded poorly.

It should have said "It is not as if Kodak Alaris can go elsewhere to get the same film."

 

[MattKing]

It would be a shock of epic proportions if Alaris started rebranding Ilford or Fujifilm film, dont you think?

More likely film coated to specifications by Inovscoat (sp??) or Harman.

At least with respect to Black and White.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

It would be a shock of epic proportions if Alaris started rebranding Ilford or Fujifilm film, dont you think?

Not in the least. Or product from any other makers of film. Of course, "rebranding" wouldn't apply to or be possible for many HARMAN-sourced products, since by policy it doesn't do that with Ilford-brand materials.

Unless HARMAN's new owners have changed the policy.

 

[RattyMouse]

More likely film coated to specifications by Inovscoat (sp??) or Harman.

At least with respect to Black and White.

More likely? Not

More likely film coated to specifications by Inovscoat (sp??) or Harman.

At least with respect to Black and White.

As we've heard countless times, moving film formulations from one factory to another, even within the same company, does not result in the same product. Going to some toll manufacturer is even more hopeless.

It's far more likely that Kodak would just re-brand whomever's film they are buying.

I still think it would be a massive shock to the industry, but if Eastman does shut down film production, then going 3rd party is pretty much all Alaris will have then.

 

[Old-N-Feeble]

This seems to be a problem with many films, regardless of brand and film type...

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153279

http://photo.net/black-and-white-photo-film-processing-forum/00W5EX

http://forum.mflenses.com/rollei-retro-80-120-light-leak-t48361.html

 

[tomfrh]

As we've heard countless times, moving film formulations from one factory to another, even within the same company, does not result in the same product.

Im Australia we have these biscuit called Arnotts Ginger Nuts )
(not sure if other places have them).

They're rock hard - they'll bust your teeth if you don't watch out. That's the appeal.

They moved the factory and just couldn't get the hardness right. The biscuits were coming out too soft. Something to do with different humidity at the new factory location...

 

[BrianShaw]

Are you sure that was a coincidence related to the factory relocation and not a corporate decision based on complaints registered at the Australian biscuit forum, and it's American affiliate the cookie forum. I can't imagine folks being thrilled about dental damage when trying to get a sugar high.

 

[BrianShaw]

By the way... The Portra I shot last Friday came out fine - no problems.

 

[Xmas]

Are you privy to the agreement(s) between Eastman Kodak and Kodak Alaris? If not, you can't know whether Kodak Alaris has the right to source film elsewhere and market it using the Kodak brand, now or at some point in the future. I don't think anyone outside those two companies will know unless and until film that carries a "made in" statement which reveals some other manufacturing location shows up in the distribution chain.

Alaris are not a normal reseller in that they don't pay a normal rate for Kodak film, the arrangement is part of a chapter 11 exit horse trade. If Eastman stops making then Alaris stop selling unless they were offered similarly advantageous rates?
If Alaris (or someone else) has rights to the film names then Tmax could be reborn the same way as APX400 and 100 were reborn, eg Harrow in UK(Kodak) used to coat Tri-x before 2004 I think, but born again seems unlikely.

 

[removed account4]

seems like it might be time to either move up or down in format seeing worldwide there is an issue with 12o film !

 

[R.Gould]

seems like it might be time to either move up or down in format seeing worldwide there is an issue with 12o film !

The issue appears to have been solved by Ilford and Foma and I feel certain that Kodak will also solve the problem, I have never personally seen this on either Foma or Ilford, although Foma appears to have changed their backing paper around a year to 18 months ago, perhaps in the end that will be the answer, and it seems to be only certain batches that are affected, so to early to talk of losing 120, that would be hard fot me as most of my cameras are old and 120.

 

[RattyMouse]

The issue appears to have been solved by Ilford and Foma and I feel certain that Kodak will also solve the problem, I have never personally seen this on either Foma or Ilford, although Foma appears to have changed their backing paper around a year to 18 months ago, perhaps in the end that will be the answer, and it seems to be only certain batches that are affected, so to early to talk of losing 120, that would be hard fot me as most of my cameras are old and 120.

I've had it happen to me once with Ilford film, but never with Fuji film, despite shooting 10 times more film from Fuji than Kodak or Ilford.

Statically speaking, for me, Fujifilm is the safest to use.

 

[jrb]

Thank you to all the people who have contributed to this thread. As was suggested, I emailed Mr. Mooney at Kodak Alaris giving him the batch number of my T-MAX 400 film. He replied within a half hour stating that be would send me replacment film. Possible crisis averted because I read this thread before using the film!

 

[pentaxuser]

. As was suggested, I emailed Mr. Mooney at Kodak Alaris giving him the batch number of my T-MAX 400 film. He replied within a half hour stating that be would send me replacment film. Possible crisis averted because I read this thread before using the film!

This suggests that KA accepts that anyone with the batch numbers mentioned is entitled to a replacement without having to provide evidence to KA that their particular film is faulty by exposing and processing it first.

Good news. This has to be the eminently sensible position for KA to take. This being the case wouldn't it be easier for KA to issue instructions to its stockists that anyone with those batch numbers can have replacements that way instead of having to contact KA directly?

If only the squeaky wheels( forthright customers) get oil, Kodak may replace less films but permanently lose the less "pushy" customers?

pentaxuser

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

I've had it happen to me once with Ilford film, but never with Fuji film, despite shooting 10 times more film from Fuji than Kodak or Ilford.

Statically speaking, for me, Fujifilm is the safest to use.

I had it happen with several rolls of Agfa film, but the storage conditions they had been subjected to were highly suspect.
Interestingly, however, I used up some really old Kodak 120 film, expired in the 1980s, a while back - just for fun, and not one of them had any issues even though they were 30 years old. They did have other issues, but there were no frame numbers to be found on the emulsion.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

Alaris are not a normal reseller in that they don't pay a normal rate for Kodak film, the arrangement is part of a chapter 11 exit horse trade...

Are you privy to the agreement(s) between Eastman Kodak and Kodak Alaris? If not, you can't know that either. If you are privy, I suspect you just violated one or more non-disclosure agreements.

...If Eastman stops making then Alaris stop selling unless they were offered similarly advantageous rates?...

Without knowing specifics of the agreement(s), it's impossible to tell whether Alaris would exit the film market or sell film(s) sourced elsewhere.

...If Alaris (or someone else) has rights to the film names then Tmax could be reborn the same way as APX400 and 100 were reborn...

Yes, they could be, as long as an extant supplier was willing to sell product to Alaris for marketing under the Kodak brand name and the agreement(s) with Eastman Kodak give Alaris a right to use the brand that way.

...eg Harrow in UK(Kodak) used to coat Tri-x before 2004 I think, but born again seems unlikely.

Unlikely seems like an understatement. Harrow is shutting down paper production. Purchasing film from a supplier other than Eastman Kodak makes much more sense than attempting to re-start film production there.

Bottom line: there's an awful lot about the Eastman Kodak / Kodak Alaris relationship that those posting at APUG (including me) don't know and will probably never know. Most of what's written on the subject in these threads is unadulterated speculation, nothing more.