Tips from the Darkroom

[MaximusM3]

When I make images, and prints, I pay a lot more attention to sensitivity than sensitometry.

 

[Chris Lange]

When I make images, and prints, I pay a lot more attention to sensitivity than sensitometry.

What he said.

 

[Chris Lange]

How clever of you. Too bad you didn't actually read anything I wrote.

If you're talking to me, no Michael, I actually agree with much of what you wrote. I myself use various forms of masking (both on film and with cutouts) to produce certain prints. I think the crux of the issue is that a beginning printer should not concern themselves with the numbers behind the tones in their print, they should just adjust one variable at a time to make a print look good. Somewhere in the middle a printer expands and refines his/her toolbox to incorporate a large number of advanced techniques, and I feel the rest of the time is spent sorting out which ones actually make a difference in your work.

I don't follow any hardline workflow, I just f**k around with it until it looks right. Doing that repeatedly has made it fairly easy for me to print most of my negatives without having to resort to using any sort of "advanced" printmaking methodology. But when I do have a negative that needs it, you bet that I'm happy to have those skills in my toolbox.

I print like I cook, not the other way around, that's all...

 

[rbultman]

...Frankly I will keep suggesting to any beginner that they read publications by Kodak and Ilford...

Any specific texts anyone cares to mention?

Regards,
Rob

 

[Bob Carnie]

Ok so some people need curve shapes, some need complicate masks to make a print, others need just simple tools.

IMHO and only my opinion, printing should be fun and very simple, otherwise over a lifetime one will take on other avenues of entertainment , lets say golf, or play a musical instrument.

Micheal- I use sensitometry every day to control my process, probably more than any single person that I know that loves photography. I assume that also would be more than you , but hey you may be the next Ron Mowrey and I tip my hat to you.

But when I am under an enlarger, by the flick of my hands I can make a print, and for sure the densitometers are outside the room.

All my posts are directed to those wanting to learn a simple way of making prints... and yes since I use the magic bullet of Split Grade every single print its in my notes... You may think its voodoo and since this is my thread as the OP you can leave any time you like and don't slam the door.

 

[Chris Lange]

Bob, when I changed my printing method about a year and a half ago, a great deal of it came from reading just about anything you've written on APUG in respect to producing prints, and then tweaking it to fit my preferences.

I don't think you have to prove your methods to anybody...

 

[Bob Carnie]

Michael

It seems over the last year you have been targeting me with your posts and each time you follow with a lame apology. This post seems to me quite odd where you are cross referencing my posts from thread to thread.

Whatever floats your boat dude... I will not see your response on this thread or any other for that matter as I have decided to put you on ignore as you simply have nothing concrete.. To Me.. anyways to add here on APUG.
I will not follow your posts from this point on so that the impulse for me to do what I think you are doing to my posts will not be possible.

Bob
QUOTE=Michael R 1974;1549884]John, if it was about beginner vs advanced I'd have no beef with it. But this stems from the other thread with the printing maps. Bob was adamant printing maps are nonsense. Post 52 in this thread appears to be a continuation of that line of thought.[/QUOTE]

 

[Bob Carnie]

hi Ned

You may surprise yourself.. the TEST does allow you to make contact sheets for reference... I did not mention in my post, So you do have the chance to make three contacts of each film so 45 in total.. one normal , one under and one over.

by staying on the same roll you can use your contacts for reference... if a image looks good beside the next one you pretty much have the balance nailed.

You can then observe the darker and lighter contacts to see where you are going to want to go, if you do the unders and overs in 1/2 stop setting then it becomes a bit more easier..

Once you start you will find the only thing you are doing is dodging and burning and looking at density and contrast..

the first day is the hardest for everyone I have asked to try this test.. the second day is much easier and as you can guess the third day is liberating.

regards

Bob

Hi Bob,

First of all thanks for those stories: wonderful!

Second of all thanks for the advice. I could never make 300 prints in 3 days, but I might manage 300 in 100 days! That's okay. It will take me several months to go as far as your assistants do in 3 days. In the end, it's what I figured: practice ad learn, practice and learn... I get the point about diverse conditions too.

Cheers!
Ned

 

[MattKing]

I'm fortunate to be a member of a photography club that focuses on film and the darkroom. There are about a dozen active members, and their experience varies from extensive to near-beginner.

The members have a variety of backgrounds, perspectives, temperaments, experiences and approaches to darkroom work. I always like to joke that if more than two people in the club agree exactly on anything other than how good lunch is than a miracle has occurred.

I have a feeling that if Bob and Michael were to become members of the group, we would have the advantage of two additional very different perspectives about printing. We would also have lots of great prints to look at.

And hopefully, over those great lunches, they would enjoy making their case to each other about how best to help the newbies in the club.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Greg I would like to see it with Dektol . I assume you mean selenium first then bleach sepia ??

 

[Bob Carnie]

interesting... yes I would like to see this test. thanks

 

[NedL]

Thanks for the encouragement and I know that when I'm working from a single roll often the base exposures are really similar... I often can guess to within a few seconds just by looking at the negative and the easel. I can easily imagine this would go even quicker with a contact sheet. And it's certainly true that it does not take long to make a print once I've got my times figured out... the part that is time consuming for me is the test strips to get to those times. I usually spend about 1 hour per print, which is typically 2 test strips, then a "working" straight print, then one or more "finals"... if I just want to change my dodging/burning a little, that last one goes fast. For me that's the fun one.. you have all the work of basic times figured out, and you know you will see the results quickly now! Also I take my test strips much further than just to get base exposures, so they often provide lots of information about how much to burn or dodge.

I can see that doing this exercise over a shorter time could be more beneficial, so I'll think about ways to streamline a bit more. One thing that could speed me up a whole lot might just be a bucket of water to put the prints in ( I have no water in my darkroom ).

Thanks again, I appreciate it.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Once you establish your time, and the images on the contact is similar then you do not need to do test strips, If you are light or dark by a bit its no big drama.
the idea is to just print... free yourself Willy.

Home depot makes the under the sink plastic holders to hold prints.. but I feel your pain with no water in the darkroom now that is tough.

But my last workshop in California showed me something I have never seen, out side drying of prints on screen , depending on the day the prints dried in front of my eyes
it was fun..

 

[NedL]

Once you establish your time, and the images on the contact is similar then you do not need to do test strips, If you are light or dark by a bit its no big drama.
the idea is to just print... free yourself Willy.

Ha! I've gotta admit that sounds fun and liberating and I probably could make a hundred prints in a day this way. I need some more 8x10 paper soon anyway, so I'll see about bigger boxes for my next order! Cheers

 

[removed account4]

Ha! I've gotta admit that sounds fun and liberating and I probably could make a hundred prints in a day this way. I need some more 8x10 paper soon anyway, so I'll see about bigger boxes for my next order! Cheers

ned

you will not believe yourself when you have made 100 prints, or 200 or 300 prints in a day
it is kind of insane, but when you get in the groove ( similar "If you are light or dark by a bit its no big drama" as bob says it )
you will be on fire.

no need for crazy tools, just your eyes ..
john

 

[pdeeh]

Any specific texts anyone cares to mention?

Regards,
Rob

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[rbultman]

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Thanks for the awesome link and to MichaelR for compiling it! Of course, I'm a bit embarrassed that I didn't do the search myself.

 

[Shawn Dougherty]

Michael

you simply have nothing concrete.. To Me.. anyways to add here on APUG.

Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion. Mine is that Michael, more so than anyone else on APUG during his time here, has gone out of his way to help me with various questions and issues I have experienced in developing film and making prints. He has done so on the forum and via private messages and e-mails. He has even sent me some materials free of charge when I had a need. His post are always logical, accurate, based on facts and well written. I SUBSCRIBE to his post. My photography is better for it. Thank you, Michael.

 

[Chris Lange]

Revering the darkroom as a mystical place is as much of a detriment as revering a camera as a mystical object.

My darkroom is a place where I can work alone, listen to loud music, and slosh paper around in chemicals. I assisted a professor at my school last year teaching a bunch of art school sophomores in an Intro to Photography course. I banished everything they were taught in high school, and told them not to think of their silver prints as being any different in the end than an inkjet print or what have you. They were split-grading and bleaching and toning in less than a month.

Their work got better...and there were fewer dust spots and scratches...and there was much rejoicing.

 

[Shawn Dougherty]

Revering the darkroom as a mystical place is as much of a detriment as revering a camera as a mystical object.

My darkroom is a place where I can work alone, listen to loud music, and slosh paper around in chemicals. I assisted a professor at my school last year teaching a bunch of art school sophomores in an Intro to Photography course. I banished everything they were taught in high school, and told them not to think of their silver prints as being any different in the end than an inkjet print or what have you. They were split-grading and bleaching and toning in less than a month.

Their work got better...and there were fewer dust spots and scratches...and there was much rejoicing.

I've been working in darkrooms, at a college, in a friend's and in my own for 16 years. During that time I've come to think of them as mystical, not because of any techniques but because it's a place where I can work alone, listen to loud music, and slosh paper around in chemicals. =)

 

[Chris Lange]

I've been working in darkrooms, at a college, in a friend's and in my own for 16 years. During that time I've come to think of them as mystical, not because of any techniques but because it's a place where I can work alone, listen to loud music, and slosh paper around in chemicals. =)

That's the kind of voodoo magic I like, Shawn!

 

[Riverviewer]

Thank you Bob. I am going to suggest to the folks in our film group that we (a) read your lists and (b) each try to write out our individual processes . I found your ideas very helpful.

 

[cjbecker]

I found out a pretty nice trick yesterday. If you don't have a cap or lost your cap for a nikor tank, a kodak lid will fit perfect. The lids off the hc110 and photoflo are the ones.

 

[throneking]

This is really helpful, thanks for sharing

 

[Down Under]

It's good to see this thread revived. I've been off and on in the darkroom since 1961, and I've learned a lot from reading through it - even from those who disagree and fight with each other, ha!

Nowadays I alternate between great urges to spend time in the darkroom, with good music and a glass or two of nice red wine at the end as a reward for all those hours spent in the dark, and ignoring the darkroom entirely. As many of us do, I reckon (give or take the red wine).

My favorite printing time is at night, but as I'm now in my 70s, this is also my favorite time to be in bed asleep with my also sleeping partner and covered in sleeping cats. I resolved this when we moved from Tasmania to the (Australian) mainland in 2019, by recently converting a very large pantry in our country farm house to my permanent darkroom. Complete with a small bar fridge I bought at a garage sale for A$50, to safely store my films, the small amount of printing paper I now buy and keep, and my film developer. (The red wine bottles stay in the kitchen.)

If you don't have a country farm house as we do, get a kitchen trolley for your enlarger. One I bought for A$25 and used for 20+ years also had two sliding trays - I used one for paper and Multigrade printing filters and the other (suitably isolated from the enlarger etc with a cardboard 'wall' to protect the valuables from flying chemistry). The darkroom bits were stored on the shelf under the enlarger. I still have it now and use it as my enlarger stand but all the other photo things now have their own places in my converted pantry darkroom.

More and more KISS is the way I like to process and print. I'm an odd duck who dislikes spending too much time doing fancy dodging/burning, mostly as I'm never able to duplicate the efforts I made in this way from print to print anyway. Split printing, well, now that's something else. I use it a lot, and with a little care and attention it produces splendid prints.

I also mix my own chemistry. Not everybody (okay, almost everybody!) will want to do it my way, but I've found this more than anything else has given me greater control over my photography and printing - all the more so as I now go to great pains to not overexpose my negatives or overdevelop by too much.

A few basic tips I would like to share -

Most things you need for your darkroom can be found in a Reject Shop or charity store. Last week I bought four Pyrex measuring jugs at an op shop for A$1 each, these have now replaced my five year old plastic jugs (ex-RF).

Try to not use freshly mixed developer. Let it sit a while. Especially the MQ developers like D76, ID11 or my current favorite, home brewed Adox MQ Borax, which can be fierce when just mixed. A few days in the bottle will tame it sufficiently.

Don't mix too much developer. It keeps reasonably well in full bottles. NOT half empty bottles!

This may not suit everybody, but I dispose of all my chemistry (environmentally soundly, of course) at the end of every printing session.

Paper is expensive and I try to use less of it. Learn' to 'read your negatives. I've not made a contact sheet so far this century, and a few years ago I sold the two Paterson contact sheet printers I bought new in the 1970s, at (then) hideous prices.

Paterson produce(d) a small test sheet printer that lets you use a 4x5" sheet of paper. As most of my negatives are exposed normally now and not overdeveloped, I find I can work out the best exposures for my enlargements with a half 4x5" sheet, so a 2x5". But then in this my half century in the darkroom probably works in my favor...

I do hope my tips haven't taken this thread too far astray. Those of us who have spent time in the darkroom all have time- and equipment-saving tips, and it's good to have this place to share them.

Go forth, process, print, enjoy. That's my KISS.