Time to get my feet wet in the large format pond

[Drew B.]

Nicole, I will be the person who doesn't support such a move..sorry. A 6x6 or 6x7 image from a MF camera will give you an image size that is all that is required or needed for portraiture...especially portraiture on the fly! I've taken a 645 neg and enlarged it to 24x36" and it was tack sharp...Why go to all the trouble of a 4x5 or larger to run around chasing kids! You're doing what you want to do and successfully! Nothing more is needed, unless you want to get into some other type of subject matter such as landscapes, etc when not working with scheduled clients. Just my opinion but I want to bring you back to earth. Again....sorry, but its the penmanship not the pen.

 

[JohnArs]

Drew you can't stop Nicole she's a woman no chance at all! To Nicole:
First I recomand to read all what you can find on the net with google etc.
Then a workshop would be really nice to see as much different cameras as possible. And play around with them!
And then if you fall in love with one get it and start taking pictures.

Good luck, Armin

 

[Dorothy Blum Cooper]

Hi Nicole,
Gotta agree with Alex and others on the Crown Graphic. I worked with one that belongs to my husband before making the 'leap' into 8x10. (Kodak Master View)

Another great thing about the Crown Graphic is the ability to use a 6x9 rollback and Grafmatic -- both options give you quicker shots. I thoroughly enjoyed using them. Just a thought.

By the way...congrats on the featured work in B&W Magazine (UK)!! Loved seeing your work!!

 

[df cardwell]

Nicole

Most people flock to LF because they haven't learned how to extract more than 20% of the native quality of a 35mm negative and believe there is magic inherent to film size that will open some magic doorway. The reality is that there is no magic in film size, and most diversions from one format to another, one camera to another, one film to another, is simply a lateral move that wastes time and expense and does not progress to the goal of making great pictures.

This, from an 8x10 shooter of 33 years standing.

Today, the greatest obstacle to making good pictures of people is the lack of time most people have. And time is the single most important ingredient for making a good picture.

In 1916, Edward Weston said, "If I am thinking about my camera, it is not a portrait." Nothing has changed. The self-conciousness of using LF to photograph people takes years of practise to erase. In the meantime, the pictures are inevitably about a photographer messing about with a big camera or a new lens, and is never about the subject.

Acknowledging that people have too little time to give to a photographer, and that LF creates barriers between a photographer and the subject that take a great deal of practise to surmount, the effect of turning away from a comfortable mastery of 120 and 35 has to be seen in terms of what can possibly be gained.

From one natural light portraitist to another, "Large Format cameras for Portraiture" are why the Hasselblad and the Leica were invented. LF can be rewarding in a very formal natural light setting, or in a studio, but you will be wasting time and money dissipating your energy taking on something new,and of dubious merit, when you could be concentrating your considerable talent and skill on your portrait business.

If raw magnification was the key ( see, it ISN'T film size, but magnification that is the key to pure technical goodness ) then Cartier Bresson would be unknown today.

Empathy with the subject is everything, technique is almost nothing. With a simple and sound 35 and 120 technique, you can make transcendent images every day of your life. Magnificent portraits can be made on 35 TMY, consistently and reliably, in light levels that require an exposure of 1/30 @ f/1.4. They are IMPOSSIBLE to make with 120, let alone 4x5. In higher levels, you can use the Hasselblad and be free from a tripod when it might be possible to make an exposure on 4x5. Any natural light condition that allows 4x5, will be done with more life and vitality with 120.

With no loss of 'technical quality'.

That said, LF can be an enjoyable hobby, and at some point shooting 8x10 contact prints could become fun. Or, you could pack the camera and family and go on cool vacations instead.

d

 

[Amund]

While I would agree with the suggestions of a press camera, either one of the Graphics or a Technika, as being the most suitable for your style of work, Nicole, for something really off-the-wall, take a look at Peter Gowland's 4x5 TLRs.

http://www.petergowland.com/camera/index.html

They are anything but light-weight, but would allow for follow focus while retaining composition.

I got a Gowlandflex last year, and it`s an amazing camera! As it`s basically a Rolleiflex on steroids, it can be used very freely. Can be handheld to pretty slow speeds, and beeing a TLR you easily get a low viewpoint that`s handy for shooting kids. A quick snap inspired by this thread can be found here
My five year old son playing with his favorite toy, the Batmobile


And a few more examples :here
here
here
and here

 

[Ian Grant]

Go for it, LF's not difficult just a little different.

My 20yr old niece uses my 5x4 when she can, but would far rather use my 10x8, she usually shoots 35mm film and digital, but realises LF is far superior.

Before you buy anything see if someone will give you a loan of a camera, or even an accompanied trial.

Don't be too persuaded by the technical (press) camera guru's as a good monorail is actually far quicker and easier to use, and has more movements, make your own choice. Having said that I have 2 mororails and two field cameras (field cameras are wooden, technical cameras metal) and they can all do all I've ever wanted of them.

Had a quick look on Ebay, Aus and there's nothing really at all, while here in the UK there's a lot of 5"x4" and 10"x8" equipment at the moment on Ebay, going for very low prices. Well some will as there's far more than usual

Also no need to go for old, I bought a great 2 yr old Cambo 5"x4" last year for £125 ? $200 US

Ian

 

[BrianShaw]

Don't be too persuaded by the technical (press) camera guru's as a good monorail is actually far quicker and easier to use, and has more movements, make your own choice.

WHAT?

 

[JBrunner]

Going to LF did not improve my photography. It did help allow ME to improve my photography.

I just purchased a crown graphic from an apug member here to have something that would be a little more flexible than my field camera. Its no SLR, but you can grab a shot with it, just not alot at once. So you become more selective. It rocks.( IMO)

 

[JBrunner]

WHAT?

HUH?

 

[removed account4]

hi nicole

the non-"slr" or "tlr" cameras might seem like they would work for kids on the move, but you probably want to see what you are going to capture on the film as the shutter falls, (like using one of the cameras you use now) rather than after the "close shutter, insert film, pull darkslide, expose" ritual ... zone focusing might seem like it'll work, but i have a feeling that you want to know your film has what you intended to be in focus, instead of guesstimating, and then realizing the boy/girl/ ?? is out of focus and moved ... with an slr (can't really speak for tlr since i don't have or have never used one) it is a little easier ... you look, you see and you trigger the shutter. you just have to remember to wind it up again so you are at the same shutter speed ... and either rotate the bag-magazine or change film holders. there is a little less to think about, but at the same time it is kind of weird/awkward at first (isn't everything?). be aware that some of the slr's in the marketplace probably have tired shutters (been stored with springs wound up and left for 30 years) so a lot of testing will be needed to make sure your speeds are what you hope they will be .... they are great cameras, and i love mine cause you can stick just about anything on there to take the photographs diopters, plastic lenses, you name it, oh vintage glass is nice too.

i don't usually use mine to shoot kids on the run, i have done some things with large format ( upto 8x10 ) but the people were mostly in one place, children in arms, or near parents &C or in some sort of a formal setting, so chasing was not an issue

good luck!
john

 

[df cardwell]

Torkel Korling, the great american photographer renowned as the Master of Graflex slr work, famous for his invention of the preset aperture adopted by Graflex, and his unparelleled photographs of children with the Graflex was also the first Master of Hasselblad portraiture of children. He bagged the Super D as soon as the Hassie hit the streets.

Phillipe Halsman, who made the TLR 5x7 that Gowland modified many years later, switched to the Hasselblad when it was no longer necessary to retouch the big negs.

Suzanne Szasz, perhaps the greatest photographer of children ever, abandoned big format for 35mm and was completely satisfied for over 30 years.

When you have 5 minutes to make pictures of a child before the attention span dissolves, and when the natural curiosity and vitality of the child is the object of the picture, what did Korling and Szasz think they were doing by picking up a camera that was hand holdable, fast and accurate to focus, and simple to work with ?

What did Halsman, who made more Life covers than anyone, hope to accomplish with his 120 SLR ? It lacked the parallax of the LF TLR, it made 24 shots in the time it took to make 3 with the LF TLR. And it allowed him to make and keep a gentle connection with his sitters because he was no longer having to stand up, sit down, shuffle holders, bend over, flail his arms about and become the ultimate distraction from his own objective.

The critical bit here is whether LF is an improvement over 35mm and 6x6 for natural light portrait photography for a professional concerned in mood, passion, and perception. This is the premise of Nicole's question.

Here are three great photographers who dropped LF because they saw a better way to make their pictures.

 

[JBrunner]

With out a doubt you trade some things for others when you go the LF route. It isn't like you have to give up 35, or MF to play with LF. I shoot all three quite happily. I choose what I think is appropriate for what I plan on shooting. The joy is the flexibility of having that choice. You won't know on a personal level what LF adds or subtracts to your work unless you give it a whirl. The best thing is good LF equipment holds its value pretty well, so your financial exposure is minimal.

 

[Nicole]

I just want to play, not break barriers, new ground, make a statement. When I picked up the 35mm, I had no aspirations, I just wanted to play. Then I was intrigued with 6x6. So I played, became inspired and now love both 35mm and 120mm. So... I just wanna play with an 8x10. I'm not planning on using it commercially, just for my own projects and other bits. I don't care if the camera is old, beaten up, the ugliest duckling around, I'm sure I can provide a good home with occassional meaningful use. I really appreciate what everyone is saying and I can assure you I'm not searching for a new direction.
Kindest regards,
Nicole

 

[df cardwell]

Cool !

Well then, a Kodak 2d, or maybe there's a pretty Gandolfi that found its way to OZ and is sitting there waiting for you. A 'sock shutter' and a brass barrel lens is all about fun.

A Vespa ??? mmmm.

hmm

 

[Nicole]

I knew you'd understand Don. What's wrong with the Vespa though? It's gets me places my car is too cumbersome for and great for 'grab shots'

 

[jimgalli]

I'll 2nd the 2D. Out of all my 8X10's (now that sounds very weird) it gets used the most. I bought one a couple days ago just to rob the lens off but I checked shipping to DU and it's abominable. Here's one in the neighborhood though. Heavy, but that's a decent lens.

 

[df cardwell]

I knew you'd understand Don. What's wrong with the Vespa though? It's gets me places my car is too cumbersome for and great for 'grab shots'

Nothing wrong with the Vespa, just wondering where the picnic basket goes after you load the camera, tripod and comfy chair. But you're resourceful....

 

[Schlapp]

Nicole,
I await with anticipation for the images you produce with an 8x10. I love your work and am intrigued as to which direction you will take. I have just been given an old Russian View camera [abouyt 5x7] with a 210 lens that I am keen to do portraits with. I need inspiration from you !

 

[Graeme Hird]

Nicole,

You make it so difficult for us to advise you!! None of us want to see you alter your style of photography, but we all know this type of camera will do that to you when you use it: we've been down that road too.

Using LF will force you to seek a new direction because it forces you to take a more deliberate approach to photography. That could be taken very wrongly, I know, but it's not meant to imply your photography is not deliberate now - it's just going to be more so when you play with a big camera.

I say go for it. If it's 10x8, look for a second hand Kodak Master II or a new Tachihara triple extension or Shen Hao. All those cameras are compact enough for the Vespa. Choose a focal length suited to your expected subjects for this new toy. Don't be too concerned about how sharp it is - you're probably going to be concentrating on contact prints from 10x8, so you are not likely to encounter any sharpness issues aside from depth of field limitations.

Budget for a tripod - the lighter the better if you must Vespa it. I know you want to hand hold, but that's not likely to work unless you make a special bracket. It's going to be even more difficult if you insist on natural light (refer to original post), since ƒ8 will be a fast lens with no DoF. Expect normal working apertures of ƒ32.

I know you will love this format. You are likely to use it for different subjects to what you shoot now. It will compliment your usual style and help you focus even more carefully when you switch back to roll film cameras.

If you can wait until I get to Perth in ~6 months, I'll happily lend you my Tachi for a week at a time. It's only 5x4, but it's still fun. If you're nice to me, I might even send you my Crown Graphic (on loan) for a play - again, only 5x4, but enough to whet your appetite .....

Of course, having said all of this, as a male I still respect your inalienable female right to change your mind on this subject

Cheers,
Graeme

 

[Drew B.]

now that we've cleared all that up...how come british (sp?) people say 5x4 or 10x8 instead of the correct 4x5 or 8x10...or more importantly, why do they drive on the wrong side of the road? Only kidding.....wrong thread!

 

[Graeme Hird]

now that we've cleared all that up...how come british (sp?) people say 5x4 or 10x8 instead of the correct 4x5 or 8x10...or more importantly, why do they drive on the wrong side of the road? Only kidding.....wrong thread!

Nicole and I are Aussies, but I suppose we have British culture in there somewhere (if it can be called culture).

I guess we shoot more portrait format shots outside the USA.

Cheers,
Graeme

 

[Soeren]

Nicole and I are Aussies, but I suppose we have British culture in there somewhere (if it can be called culture).
SNIP


Cheers,
Graeme

Culture ? perhaps.
As I understand your cuisine is quite different from the brits, well that is.... ahem, you have a cuisine they don't
Cheers

 

[df cardwell]

Nicole, since you live where they keep the sunshine, why not shoot an 8x10 Brownie ?

( Bostick and Sullivan offer one: http://www.bostick-sullivan.com/Hobo/welcome.htm )

I'm sure it will give you ideas. I made one years ago and shot in the city, and my only regret was selling it !

 

[Richard Wasserman]

The Hobo is a great idea. I have one with a 90mm Angulon which produces round photos and it is great fun. It does take a fair amount of light to use it hand held as it is pretty much f/22 and be there. They are fairly easy to make, which I was going to do, but I got lucky and bought a used one for a very good price.

Richard Wasserman

 

[BrianShaw]

WHAT?: "...faster than a speeding monorail..."

HUH?

Hi... I thought I was being perfectly clear in what I said... is there something I can clarify for you?