Time to get my feet wet in the large format pond

[Nicole]

I can hear some of you saying "But you said size doesn't matter and you couldn't imagine chasing children with a LF". Well, I'm ready for the challenge.

Since I have absolutely no idea about LF... if you can think of a LF camera that can kinda go anywhere, doesn't way a tonne, that can fit onto the back of a Vespa, and can take beautiful glass, I'd really appreciate your recommendations.

Thank you very much!

Oh, and I'm an all natural light girl.

Kindest regards,
Nicole

 

[jimgalli]

Ouch. I'd sure hate to see the spontaneity go out of your work...but then there's Sally Mann, right? I guess a Linhof Technica would be the place to start once you're convinced it's the path you want to take. Wish you lived in desert southwest USA, you could come to the workshop and play with all kinds of different cameras and make a semi informed choice. Any one near you that could do that?

Talk via PM with Dorothy Blum Cooper. She's just started working in 8X10 and does beautiful things. I'll bet she would have some ideas about the switch.

 

[Stephanie Brim]

I'm going to be a newbie soon, too (soon being in the next couple of months), and I have most of the same requirements that Nicole has...other than the Vespa thing. But MAN, I want one of those.

 

[ras351]

Hi Nicole,

The lfinfo site has some good information on LF (and ULF) cameras. I agree with others that some sort of press/rangefinder type camera would be best suited to chasing children but even they will be slow to use compared to MF or 35mm. If possible I would suggest trying to find someone in Perth who'll let you borrow a kit for a short time as LF is quite different to MF or 35mm photography. Are you interested in the camera movements, a larger negative or something else?

Roger.

 

[SuzanneR]

Hey Nicole!

I've recently acquired two LF cameras, a speed graphic, and an old 8x10... both as cheaply as possible, just to try it. Haven't done as much with it as I would like, but I'm hoping to when the weather warms up here. I can fuss around with the cameras while the kids play around in the backyard, and when I'm ready... shout "HOLD STILL!" I plan to approach the whole process in an intuitive way... basically think of the camera as a glorified pinhole, and just shoot!

For inspiration, as mentioned, Sally Mann, of course, and Andrea Modica's "Treadwell" series. I did a workshop last year with Andrea, and her work is quite extraordinary.

Good luck with this adventure!

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Bear in mind that Sally Mann does all her shooting with an 8x10, so it is absolutely tripod-mounted. Doing what you're looking to do just requires a bit more advance planning than doing it with 35mm. For THE cheapest/easiest way to manage this, I'd also suggest one of the press cameras, where you can zone focus and have the camera preset for what you want to do. I'd also suggest something on the wide side of normal for a lens, between a 90 and a 135. I suggest this range so that you have room in your framing for subject movement, but nothing so wide as to produce distortion in the field of view at close range. There are some very nice lenses out there in the 100-110 range that can be picked up quite inexpensively - I found my 4 3/8" (110mm) Goerz Dagor for $100 USD. Since you're most likely not going to be worrying about movements on the camera you're looking for, the 127mm and 135mm Kodak and Graflex Optar lenses will be more than adequate to the job also. When you decide to do some somewhat more posed portraity shots, look into a 210mm for 4x5. It's a nice focal length that will give you that compression of perspective you want for a tight head-and-shoulders or half-length portrait, and you'll be able to blur out the background quite nicely as well. At that point, you'll also want to be using a more traditional view camera and do your composing and focusing on the ground glass, not the rangefinder, since your depth of field drops off rather rapidly.

 

[Shinnya]

So does Andrea Modica with her 8x10. You need to think outside of the box.

Warmly,
Tsuyoshi

Bear in mind that Sally Mann does all her shooting with an 8x10, so it is absolutely tripod-mounted.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Julia Margaret Cameron had high praise for children who could hold still for a count of 300 with angel wings attached to their backs. If the children you photograph are so disciplined, 8x10" or larger may be for you.

Really it's an issue of how static or dynamic your compositions are. Sally Mann's and Andrea Modica's work really conveys a sense of stillness, because it requires it. They are shooting 8x10" with short DOF in general, and the subject can't move. The best way to keep the subject in focus, I've found, with this approach is to use a string to the tip of the nose, focus on the eyes at the shooting aperture, close shutter, insert filmholder, pull darkslide, recheck focus with the string, wait for the right expression and check focus again with the string if you need to, and then trigger the shutter. Similar approaches involve things like projecting a thin slice of light with a slide projector on the subject's ear, out of camera view, etc. I've heard of people using laser pointers, but I don't like the idea of pointing a laser too close to someone's eyes. You can also just watch the light very carefully to see if the shadows move. I watch the nose shadow, but this is usually easier with studio light than with natural light.

A rangefinder camera like a Technika gives you a few more options, because you can check the focus from the position of the camera, but you have to recompose every time you check. A Littman has a single-window rangefinder/viewfinder, so you don't have to recompose, but you only get one lens.

If you're really chasing toddlers, then an SLR like the Graflex or possibly a TLR like the Gowlandflex, really is the thing. I've brought my 5x7" Press Graflex to the playground and used it handheld to photograph the children of a friend of ours. The kids think it's really cool.

 

[noseoil]

Another vote for an old 4x5 press camera with a "range finder" type of focus setup. Film is plentiful and cheap. The 127mm focal length would be a nice choice for d.o.f. and-or preset focus. You would be able to hand hold with tri-x at asa 200 and have plenty of room to work with (f8 and be there). A grafmatic 6 shot back would be quick enough to make things work, but would require a bit of practice to have it all come together in a shot. I say go for it and see what happens. Best, tim

 

[Troy Ammons]

I can hear some of you saying "But you said size doesn't matter and you couldn't imagine chasing children with a LF". Well, I'm ready for the challenge.

Since I have absolutely no idea about LF... if you can think of a LF camera that can kinda go anywhere, doesn't way a tonne, that can fit onto the back of a Vespa, and can take beautiful glass, I'd really appreciate your recommendations.

Thank you very much!

Oh, and I'm an all natural light girl.

Kindest regards,
Nicole

Shooting anything moving faster than a snail with a LF camera is tough. Its not so much heaving the thing around as it is focusing and framing and changing film.

There are a few ways you can go, depending on what you want to do.

I would probably start off with a press camera.

A Linhof is too heavy. great camera though but it weighs 12#.

I like the super graphic with interchangeable lens cams. You can shoot from 90mm to 240mm. Also you really only need 3 lenses with LF. Its different than other format. Of my 3 lenses I use a 150mm lens 95% of the time.

You could also go for a crown graphic or you could add a speed graphic if you want to try some bizarre effect (speed graphic) stretch shots like slit scan photography motion shots.

With those 2 cameras (crown or speed) the rangefinder is dialed into one lens.

With the super graphic you change a lens and the cam and you are in sync. Cams are hard to find.

The super graphic has full front movements, rotating back all alum and tough. With a light lens it weighs about 5#

All of those are press cameras and they were made for shooting hand held.

Add to that about 4-5 graphmatic film holders and a readyload and you are off.

Technique with a camera like that is different. The rangefinder is not coupled, so for action you are best with 400 film, stop down a little, prefocus an area and shoot with the wire frame.

With a graphmatic film holder ther is a slide and you shuffle the film. 6 shots per pack.

If its in a studio, no big deal or stationary no big deal.

There are other options too. There are converted Polaroid 110B cameras around, but get someone like noah to build one rather than buying a littman. They are compact and have a coupled rangefinder, but are a bit heavy. Single lens.

I am in the middle of converting a Polaroid 180. It also has a coupled RF, its small, compact and lighter. Mine as shown is less than 2# without a back. The last photo is with the graphmatic attached that holds 6 sheets of film.

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Down the page a bit is Noahs clean low profile conversion.
I really like his, as it is super clean and keeps the RF in the stock location.
This is probably about the ultimate coupled RF lightweight, but its a one lens deal. No movements either.

Another option other option is the Fotoman, guess focus, Sep rangefinder, helical focus mount, no movements etc. For each lens you add you must buy a new helical and cone for that lens.

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Another is the Sinar handy if you can find one for a reasonable price. Down the page.

http://www.glennview.com/sinar.htm

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

A Linhof is too heavy. great camera though but it weighs 12#.

It's definitely heavier than a Crown Graphic, but my 4x5" Tech V only weighs about 6-7 pounds, same as my 8x10" Gowland PocketView (which doesn't fit in any pocket that I have).

 

[Ole]

The 12 pound Technika is the 5x7" version - the one I hold in my avatar picture. But I will NOT recommend a 5x7" Technika for hand held shooting. Unless you're in a place where a tripod is out of the question, of course...

 

[Nicole]

Jim:
I can assure you my spontaneity is unavoidable. It's part of my makeup, whether that's a good thing or not... I'm not sure at times.
The workshop sounds great! Wish I could be there. I'll have to check with my friend Graeme Hird about LF. I'm not planning to jump ship or change formats, just add another chapter to my journey. Yes, Dorothy Blum Cooper is inspiring.

Jay:
Thank you for taking the time to write. I think I'd like to try the 8x10. Your Graflex sounds like lots of fun. I'd be interested to hear why you gave up MF. This doesn't mean that I'll consider it - mearly curiosity. I appreciate you sharing.

Stephanie:
The Vespa's pretty cool. Lots of fun.

Roger:
Thank you. I'm not planning to chase children with an 8x10 but I have a few projects in mind I'd like to try out and think the 8x10 might work nicely. Thank you for the site address. I'm just interested in learning as much as I can about any format, photograph what presents itself, what I see, and use whatever equipment I feel is necessary at the time.

Suzanne:
I wish you lived closer!!! We'd have a ball!!! I hear everything you say.

Kindest regards,
Nicole

 

[photobum]

The Crown graphic is lighter than a Linhof or a Speed Graphic. As far as going anywhere how about up Mt. Suribachi? That was the flag at the top of Iwo Jima during the big one. Or fast enough to catch the Hindenburg blowing up? Or Babe Ruth hitting his last home run?

I've carried mine across the country on the back of my Gold Wing. But then I could carry a Vespa on the back of my Wing.

 

[Nicole]

Scott:
Thank you! Lots of info to consider.

Tsuyoshi:
I like your suggestion. Thank you.

David:
Angel wings, hmm I don't think so.
I have no idea where LF will lead me, but then again I had no idea the first time I picked up a 35mm camera either. So who knows where the wind blows... This is what's called evolution, right? Thank you very much for the tips David, most appreciated. I don't mind only working with one lens. That's all I have for my Hasselblad.

Tim:
"I say go for it and see what happens" - great attitude. Thanks Tim.

Kindest regards,
Nicole

 

[Nicole]

Ole:
"Unless you're in a place where a tripod is out of the question"... now there's a thought. Haven't used it in a long time.

Photo:
Sounds good!

 

[Stephanie Brim]

I'm most likely going to go 4x5, mostly for the not-so-horrible expense than anything else. I think 4x5 is good for someone just starting out in large format, relatively cost effective, still contact printable, and easier to handle. I'm going to have to tray develop at first and it will help to have a smaller negative when doing that.

Speed Graphic VS Crown Graphic VS monorail camera is what I really have to go through now. The press/monorail debate is what I really need an answer to.

And Nicole...I'd LOVE to see what you can do with an 8x10 camera.

 

[seadrive]

Rather than try to adapt LF to your current modus operandi, I would take it the way it wants to go. Set up a little studio, and make formal portraits. Make it something very different than what you do now.

I know you're a natural light gal, but reflected or diffused strobe light can be very attractive, and in sufficient supply, would give you a better combination of shutter speed and depth of field than you're likely to come by, ummmm... naturally.

Good luck, and best wishes.

Steve

 

[rbarker]

While I would agree with the suggestions of a press camera, either one of the Graphics or a Technika, as being the most suitable for your style of work, Nicole, for something really off-the-wall, take a look at Peter Gowland's 4x5 TLRs.

http://www.petergowland.com/camera/index.html

They are anything but light-weight, but would allow for follow focus while retaining composition.

 

[BrianShaw]

Really it's an issue of how static or dynamic your compositions are...

Quite right, Mr. G'farb... it's the interaction of composition and the kid, as you mention in the JMC sentiment. I have two kids: one (8 years old) is a natural photo subject and another (almost 3) that scowls if I even think of taking his picture. I have GREAT pictures of the first kid in all formats and many, many lousy pictures of the second. Go ahead, Nicole, give it a try!

If one has the right kid and the right composition, LF (or MF, as you probably already know) is a great way to go. LF contact prints and enlargements are fabulous looking, plus you can work in the alternative processes if you like that. The earlier postings touting press cameras makes sense to me because that's what works for me. I use a Super Graphic and get decent results from zone focusing and the electric shutter release using the original 135mm Graflex Optar. Other lenses can be put on this camera but the rangefinder must be cammed differently for each different focal length lens. I've never tried putting a 210 or greater on it... I think it might run out of bellows at that focal length, but don't know for sure. I've had 90 to 165 on it with no problem.

I also use a monorail viewcamera with my kiddies but only for the most controlled situations. Often it's a large, comfortable, IMMOBILE chair. I wish I had a scanner so I could share my favorite picture: my son (the older one, naturally) sitting crosswise in the afore mentioned chair, taken on 4x5 with a soft focus lens. The SF effect is quite mild but makes the portrait REALLY smooth. Just thinking about the picture makes me want to look at it again... gotta go!

I encourage you to give it a go... even though you will likely find that 35mm still is best in some situations!

 

[DeanC]

Nicole,
After reading your post I went and browsed your gallery to re-look at your work. I got myself stuck in this cycle of "man, doing this in LF would be tough" and "imagine how great it would be though" over and over. I think the suggestions of press cameras are spot on though. If decades of newspaper photographers could capture news with them, they must be okay for on-the-fly work. A medium-wide lens, zone focusing and a couple of graphmatic holders ought to be a good place to start. There seem to be plenty of Graphics showing up on eBay these days for reasonable prices too.

 

[DeanC]

I'm most likely going to go 4x5, mostly for the not-so-horrible expense than anything else. I think 4x5 is good for someone just starting out in large format, relatively cost effective, still contact printable, and easier to handle.

You're absolutely right, 4x5 is the LF gateway drug.

It feels a a little small for contact printing to me though. If you're not 100% commited to Graphic vs. monorail you might want to think about a 5x7 field with a 4x5 back like the one from the "Sleeping in the Shed" thread. 5x7 is still easily small enough to tray develop in an 8x10 tray but would result in a 75% larger contact print.

 

[Alex Hawley]

Damn, this LF virus is contagious! I know as well as anyone. Got bitten by the bug three years ago and have never looked back.

Nicole, photographers were making many great photos of children with LF way before 35mm or Hasselblads became en vogue. Many press photographers were capturing decisive moments just as well with Speed Graphics as anything else. Its just that the shooting style has to be different as others have explained.

I would recommend a Crown Graphic to start off with. By far, its proven itself over many many years. Its a bit lighter and less cantankerous than the Speed is. A Super Speed would be the most desireable althought they are harder to find and more expensive.

And just to show that its nothing new for women to use a Graphic, the first attachment was taken by my mother with a 2-1/4 x 3-1/4 Crown Graphic. That's me on the sled circa 1957. Nearly 50 years later, I took the second one with the 8x10 Deardorff using a 4x5 reducing back. This time, Mom is on the other side of the lens!

 

[photomc]

There were a few WWII photographers that gave us some great stuff with old press cameras...did not seem to slow them down much. I say find an old Crown, Busch, etc and go for it. A 4x5 Crown, with a graphic film holder (forget the proper name - hold 5 or 6 sheets of film), pre-set the lens/shutter and go to work. Who knows, you may find a nice new "style" and have a new tool to use. If it does not work out, sell the camera for what you paid for it - and say 'I tried LF once - and it wasn't for me'. Tim has the right idea...just go for it.

 

[Nick Zentena]

Nobody addressed the "glass" comment. Or at least I missed it if they did.

You need to forget the small format mindset. Any lens that fits the camera can be used. It doesn't matter who made it. The camera has no way of knowing who made the lens that is mounted. Nor will it care.

OTOH you need to make sure what ever camera you're looking at will handle the focal lengths you want. Size of the lens can matter if it's a small camera and a very big lens but normally size of the lens won't be a big issue.