Thoughts on the Bronica S2?

sixby45 · Jan 26, 2020

Hi everyone - was thinking of picking up a Bronica S2 - any particular standout features that users love ? I’m rather smitten with the results I see from the Nikon 75mm lens and looking for a more portable option than my Fuji GX689

Trask · Jan 26, 2020

Well, the system provides a wide variety of lenses, and as the lenses do not contain shutters (which Bronica SQ lenses do, for example) the Bronica S lenses are often somewhat less expensive than the SQ, Hasselblad, etc. The fact that the shutter is in the camera means you can hack lenses for use with the S2 system, if that’s of interest to you. And the S2 gives you the chance to buy up into the S system, perhaps getting an EC-TL. One advantage that used to be more important is that the backs have a switch to permit use of 120 or 220 film, whereas some other systems require different backs to use both film lengths.

itsdoable · Jan 26, 2020

Bronica pre-S, S, S2, S2a are mechanical, while the EC and EC-TL are battery dependent - but that said, the S series are 50~70years old, and time has been rough on their non-metal parts (foam, plastics, textiles). The EC series are younger and arguably more reliable, but also bigger.

That said, I have a working S2a which I prefer over the EC-TL. I have and original S, which I'm trying to refurbishing.

Finding a S-series in good working order is difficult.

johnha · Jan 26, 2020

The S2A is supposed to have a better gear mechanicals. The mirror slides down rather than flipping up, this allows the lens to project into the mirror box, the 75mm Nikkor is very slimline on the front of the camera.

There's a lot of metal in them so they're heavy and they're loud when fired.

Jeremy Mudd · Jan 27, 2020

I have an S2A - it is heavy as others have stated and the shutter is the loudest of all of my medium format gear. I would recommend that you look for an S2A versus the S or S2, as the S2A isn't prone to winding gear failure as much as the previous models. Also know that the backs will sometimes fail due to stripped gears and cause un-intended double exposures and overlapped frames. Given the lack of support for them, you are generally better off finding another excellent condition back on eBay versus attempting a repair. The other thing to mention here is that the focusing can sometimes be off if the foam has decayed in the camera. This hasn't been a problem with mine but mine was a pristine example when I bought it. I personally know two other people who have had this problem with theirs when they purchased it. Lastly, the focus screen is a little dimmer as compared to that of my Hasselblad 500c.

All of that may seem like I'm downing on it, but I do like mine and will still occasionally carry it with me on trips and/or hikes. The 75mm Nikkor glass is great and I've had some really good results with it.

GRHazelton · Jan 27, 2020

From what I read the S2a has steel film transport gears, rather than the brass gears of the S2 which apparently failed under heavy use. Do know that the S2a and presumably the S2 has foam spacers on the view screen which over time will fail, as will the mirror "stops." These failures make accurate focusing, except to the hard stop of infinity, impossible. Apparently the fix is not difficult....or so they say! I'm not going to attempt it on my S2a! See this: https://www.flickr.com/groups/bronicas/discuss/72157696885706224/ I don't have the dexterity I used to enjoy.

Deleted member 88956 · Jan 27, 2020

I went for the EC because of the way screen is mounted in the S line. EC, then EC-TL with built in TTL metering (there is TTL finder for the EC, can be used on TL too). EC fills super solid, mechanics are first rate, everything fits tight with reassuring clicks etc.

Of the S, the S2A is the last and youngest, so if anything that would be one to go for and there are still some that have been hardly used.

One thing to keep in mind: lenses are compatible with S and EC, extensions tubes.reversing rings too, and that pretty much is it, nothing else. Finders are not, film backs, bellows, screens also not. There is also a pistol grip that was made for S2 with great double trigger ( DOF preview and shutter) that is said to be EC compatible, but it is not (there is even a factory box that states S2 / EC). So, if pistol grip is something you would want one day, need a different one each line.

Overall speaking from EC side, it is large, heavy, solid, precision tool and a joy to use. Lenses are great.

jeffreyg · Jan 27, 2020

I owned a Bronica S2A and used it for 19 years. The quality of the lenses Nikkor and Zenzanon were excellent and I was very pleased with it. I used it until I went to the Hasselblad system. It was noisy and the shutter seemed to go "clunk" but the results were good. Since it is a rather old camera service on one may not be as easy as the Hasselblad.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

http://wwwsculptureandphotography.com/

sixby45 · Jan 27, 2020

Thanks everyone for the info Looks like a fun camera to shoot with!

itsdoable · Jan 27, 2020

From what I read the S2a has steel film transport gears, rather than the brass gears of the S2 which apparently failed under heavy use....

This is a commonly repeated comment that is NOT TRUE. It was started a long time ago, and that statement has been repeated everywhere on the internet.

All Bronica S gears are steel, which is necessary to take the winding stress of the detente at the end of the wind cycle. They changed the shape of the gears under the highest stress on the S2a.

S2a on the left, S2 on the right.

The gears engaged to the wind knob (removed above) drive the gears circled, the entire load is taken on 1~2 teeth (typical of gears). Bronica enlarged the teeth on the S2A to accommodate a larger brute load.Typically the S2 gears were fine, but since it takes 4+ rotations of the wind knob to cock the camera, if you were in a hurry, you would wind on very rapidly and slam into the end stop (which has a significant detente to overcome). Because the amount of wind is variable depending on how much film has been shot (# revolutions of the wind know reduces slightly as the film is wound on) there is a tendency to wind hard till it stops (unlike a hasselblad that winds with exactly one revolution every time)

Just want to start correcting the "brass" gear story.

johnha · Jan 28, 2020

Thanks for the info & photos - easy to forget just how complicated a 'simple' thing like film winding can be to implement mechanically!

Deleted member 88956 · Jan 28, 2020

itsdoable said:
Bronica pre-S, S, S2, S2a are mechanical, while the EC and EC-TL are battery dependent - but that said, the S series are 50~70years old, and time has been rough on their non-metal parts (foam, plastics, textiles). The EC series are younger and arguably more reliable, but also bigger.

That said, I have a working S2a which I prefer over the EC-TL. I have and original S, which I'm trying to refurbishing.

Finding a S-series in good working order is difficult.

Is there anything particular that makes you prefer S2A over EC-TL? I went with EC because of screen mounting design, little else really. Really like the way EC works, but had not much handling with S.

James Bleifus · Jan 28, 2020

Before the new year I got rid of all the cameras I knew that I wouldn’t be using. Since I’ve standardized on my Chamonix 4x5, that mean I dumped everything else. Everything else. But there was one camera besides the Cham that I couldn’t get rid of - my Bronica S2A. It’s the coolest looking camera I’ve ever owned. I’m not going to photograph with it, but I am keeping it around as a testament to the sort of consideration I wish all camera manufacturers put into the appearance of their cameras.

You’ll love the camera as long as you don’t mind the kick when you release the shutter.

Cheers, James

Cholentpot · Jan 28, 2020

I have and use an S2.

The film advance is scary, feels like you're breaking something. And finding one with a working PC sync is supposed to be rather hard. Mine won't sync up with my lights so it's not as useful as I'd like it to be, a bit of a shame really as it is a really nice studio camera.

If anyone know a solution I'm all ears.

GRHazelton · Jan 28, 2020

itsdoable said:
This is a commonly repeated comment that is NOT TRUE. It was started a long time ago, and that statement has been repeated everywhere on the internet.

All Bronica S gears are steel, which is necessary to take the winding stress of the detente at the end of the wind cycle. They changed the shape of the gears under the highest stress on the S2a.

View attachment 238971
S2a on the left, S2 on the right.

The gears engaged to the wind knob (removed above) drive the gears circled, the entire load is taken on 1~2 teeth (typical of gears). Bronica enlarged the teeth on the S2A to accommodate a larger brute load.Typically the S2 gears were fine, but since it takes 4+ rotations of the wind knob to cock the camera, if you were in a hurry, you would wind on very rapidly and slam into the end stop (which has a significant detente to overcome). Because the amount of wind is variable depending on how much film has been shot (# revolutions of the wind know reduces slightly as the film is wound on) there is a tendency to wind hard till it stops (unlike a hasselblad that winds with exactly one revolution every time)

Just want to start correcting the "brass" gear story.

Thanks for the correction, and for the pictures, which show the difference! The S2a gears look far more rugged than those on the S2.

GRHazelton · Jan 28, 2020

James Bleifus said:
Before the new year I got rid of all the cameras I knew that I wouldn’t be using. Since I’ve standardized on my Chamonix 4x5, that mean I dumped everything else. Everything else. But there was one camera besides the Cham that I couldn’t get rid of - my Bronica S2A. It’s the coolest looking camera I’ve ever owned. I’m not going to photograph with it, but I am keeping it around as a testament to the sort of consideration I wish all camera manufacturers put into the appearance of their cameras.

You’ll love the camera as long as you don’t mind the kick when you release the shutter.

Cheers, James

From what I can tell, the "kick" doesn't affect the exposure, although it does scare the horses, little children cry, and some women have been known to faint! Just kidding!

sixby45 · Jan 28, 2020

Ha! Scary shutter sound But is it really louder than my Fuji GX680 giant mirror flapping and motor back winding? That seems to scare the wildlife for miles around when I use it in the field

Jeremy Mudd · Jan 28, 2020

GRHazelton said:
From what I can tell, the "kick" doesn't affect the exposure, although it does scare the horses, little children cry, and some women have been known to faint! Just kidding!

I had a shot left on a roll once, and tried to finish it with a shot of my sleeping cat. I've never seen her run so fast when the shutter boom scared the hell outta her. I still think to this day its why she peed on my camera bag later that week.

Cholentpot · Jan 28, 2020

sixby45 said:
Ha! Scary shutter sound But is it really louder than my Fuji GX680 giant mirror flapping and motor back winding? That seems to scare the wildlife for miles around when I use it in the field

Yes, between the gunshot crack of the film advance and shutter cocking and the KACHISLAP of the firing it is loud.

abruzzi · Jan 28, 2020

itsdoable said:
Just want to start correcting the "brass" gear story.

Thanks, that’s some great information. Unfortunately most of the info on Bronica focal plane cameras on the web is loaded with hearsay and sketchy info. I have an original S on the way to me. It probably doesn’t work, but I got it for so cheap, I don’t care, and I may tear it apart to figure out how it all works.

I’ve wanted an early Bronica for a long time, because they are just so pretty (and the Nikkor lenses..) so I’ve thought about starting to consolidate all the information I can find an post it online. We'll see.

Cholentpot · Jan 28, 2020

abruzzi said:
Thanks, that’s some great information. Unfortunately most of the info on Bronica focal plane cameras on the web is loaded with hearsay and sketchy info. I have an original S on the way to me. It probably doesn’t work, but I got it for so cheap, I don’t care, and I may tear it apart to figure out how it all works.

I’ve wanted an early Bronica for a long time, because they are just so pretty (and the Nikkor lenses..) so I’ve thought about starting to consolidate all the information I can find an post it online. We'll see.

If you can find a fix for the PC sync issue that would be wonderful.

abruzzi · Jan 28, 2020

I wouldn't hold out much hope. If the camera works I'll be hesitant to tear it apart, if it doesn't work, I may start playing with it, but I'm far from a pro repair person. Plus, I've never seen a repair manual for any of the focal plane Bronicas, so I'll mostly just be poking around.

Cholentpot · Jan 28, 2020

abruzzi said:
I wouldn't hold out much hope. If the camera works I'll be hesitant to tear it apart, if it doesn't work, I may start playing with it, but I'm far from a pro repair person. Plus, I've never seen a repair manual for any of the focal plane Bronicas, so I'll mostly just be poking around.

Just like the rest of us...

cobbu2 · Jan 28, 2020

abruzzi said:
I wouldn't hold out much hope. If the camera works I'll be hesitant to tear it apart, if it doesn't work, I may start playing with it, but I'm far from a pro repair person. Plus, I've never seen a repair manual for any of the focal plane Bronicas, so I'll mostly just be poking around.

A little over a year ago I reached out to Frank Marshman, even though I believed he'd retired from the Bronica repair business. I had acquired a broken 'S' model that I thought would be cool if it could be brought back to life. Turns out, he was still working on them (he says as long as he has enough "donor" cameras, he'll keep doing it) and it was returned to me good as new. He can be reached at camerawiz@msn.com, https://www.manta.com/c/mm0yggb/camera-wiz-camera-repair

abruzzi said:
I have an original S on the way to me. It probably doesn’t work, but I got it for so cheap, I don’t care, and I may tear it apart to figure out how it all works.

The important thing to remember about the 'S' versus the S2/S2A is there is no overrun clutch to wind past (pushing the wind lever past a resistance then feeling as if you broke it). On the S, once the lever stops, the shutter is cocked, so don't force it.

GRHazelton said:
From what I can tell, the "kick" doesn't affect the exposure, although it does scare the horses, little children cry, and some women have been known to faint! Just kidding!

This is a fact. I took my newly-repaired 'S' to Banff National Park in Alberta this past summer and used it handheld nearly all of the time. As long as I kept the shutter speed 1/125 or faster, there was no motion blur. Yup, it's loud, but nearly all the vibration is post-exposure.

Cascade Mountain at 1/125 on Velvia 100, Bronica S, 75/2.8 Nikkor-P, handheld:

I really love using this camera, it gets the job done.

itsdoable · Jan 28, 2020

Witold said:
Is there anything particular that makes you prefer S2A over EC-TL? I went with EC because of screen mounting design, little else really. Really like the way EC works, but had not much handling with S.

The EC-TL is bigger & heavier than the EC, but works identically except it has AE. It's a nice, well damped machine. The S is smaller, mechanical, and arguably nicer to hold and use. It has less shutter lag, and despite the loud shutter, has a very nice sound (to my ears), and I don't have issues with vibration. By comparison, the Hasselblad 2000 series is louder with a sharp tinny slap - but is even smaller.

Ultimately, I find the EC-TL on the large side to lug around, especially compared to the S2a. And there is something satisfying working with a precise mechanical machine.

Thoughts on the Bronica S2?

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