Thoughts on Leica M Monochrom???

[Pioneer]

A true, black and white digital Leica. I am not rich and would have to sell almost my entire collection but I am certainly tempted. It would take forever to buy any more than one lens, but that may not be all that bad.

Thoughts everyone? Whatcha think?

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Sometimes less is more.

 

[chuck94022]

Um, let me think about this a second. <one, one thousand...> no.

 

[Eric Rose]

Rich persons toy.

 

[Felinik]

Hi all,

I'm the new guy here, and I've been reading up on the Leica Monochrome the last days, stunned by the price...

It's a full frame, which of course is interesting, and it seems that the way they use the sensors bit depth is pretty intelligent, and what I've seen so far on test pics (flickr) it looks good, but no emulated film grain, instead they ship it with Silver Efex Pro 2 (which I find very odd!!).

If I had the money extra, meaning I didn't have to think twice, I'd probably look elsewhere anyway, Canon has some interesting things going on with bitdepth in their sensors, and Sigma is up to something too with their new sensors as well...

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

According to the B&H Website, the camera is $7950, no lens. No mention of a kit. There's a new APO-Summicron 50mm f2 that is $7195. So if you pair them up, you're looking at $15,000 USD for the pair. Frankly, I'd stick to a nice used Summicron f2 for a couple of hundred and have lots of spare cash to fuel my printer.

 

[Felinik]

OMG I think you're right there, the price is without lens!!!

Amazing!

 

[Pioneer]

$15000 - No Possible Way

I agree on the $15 Grand price tag for one lens and a camera being wayyy out of my league. But I would love to get my hands on one of these with an older lens for a week just to see if it is as good as I imagine it would be. I wonder how long it will take, if ever, to find one that can be rented...without selling the car of course.

This coming from a guy who hand rolls Arista EDU Ultra 100, loads it into a Vivitar V3800N, then walks around taking pictures with a Pentax FA 31mm Limited, home developing and scanning the results with a used Epson V500 Photo scanner, finally printing on an old, cheap, er...I mean inexpensive, HP Deskjet 3740, all the while cursing cat hair and dust.

But it sure is a wonderful dream!!!

But I think a new, or different, printer has to come first. As well as talking my old workstation into working right.

 

[chuck94022]

I agree on the $15 Grand price tag for one lens and a camera being wayyy out of my league. But I would love to get my hands on one of these with an older lens for a week just to see if it is as good as I imagine it would be. I wonder how long it will take, if ever, to find one that can be rented...without selling the car of course.

This coming from a guy who hand rolls Arista EDU Ultra 100, loads it into a Vivitar V3800N, then walks around taking pictures with a Pentax FA 31mm Limited, home developing and scanning the results with a used Epson V500 Photo scanner, finally printing on an old, cheap, er...I mean inexpensive, HP Deskjet 3740, all the while cursing cat hair and dust.

But it sure is a wonderful dream!!!

But I think a new, or different, printer has to come first. As well as talking my old workstation into working right.

Lose the cat.

You'll spend less and have better resolution with "film quality" if you buy an actual medium format film camera, for much less than the above. You can get a Mamiya 6 or Mamiya 7 kit (with lenses) for much less. Great sharp lenses, actual film quality, B&W and color, and if you take my advice above, no cat hair!

 

[Pioneer]

Lose the cat.

You'll spend less and have better resolution with "film quality" if you buy an actual medium format film camera, for much less than the above. You can get a Mamiya 6 or Mamiya 7 kit (with lenses) for much less. Great sharp lenses, actual film quality, B&W and color, and if you take my advice above, no cat hair!

Ohhhh, I am just drooling out loud right now. There is no way that I would trade my film gear. In addition to that great little Vivitar I do have some other film options, including some nice, medium format equipment. And I agree with you, if I do my part right (not always guaranteed) the results are very, very nice...and for a whole lot less money.

But you have to admit, that little Leica sure is a sweet looking piece of gear and it would be great fun to take it out for a spin.

As for the cat...who will put my negatives on the scanner for me if I get rid of him??

 

[pschwart]

Forget the camera -- get another cat

 

[Felinik]

So, anybody who's bought the M Monochrom yet?




Cheers
/J.F. Felinik

 

[MaximusM3]

So, anybody who's bought the M Monochrom yet?




Cheers
/J.F. Felinik

I did. First of all, as I always say, a camera is just a tool to record images. The greatest camera or lens won't help for poor vision or lack of creativity. Now that I got that out of the way, the Monochrom is simply phenomenal. I did own an M9 and it collected dust. I am a devoted film shooter but I have always dreamed of a great digital Leica that would get color out of the way. The image rendition is simply staggering. Anyone who loves shooting TMX, APX25, Adox CHS or any of the fine grain emulsions/fine grain developers combos, would be lying if they handled a Monochrom and say they didn't love it. Frankly, shooting at 640ISO, it looks like old Tri-X souped in 777 Once we take away the distraction of color, and the much quicker, simpler conversion, which to me looks a million times better than any M9 conversion to black and white, the camera is just a pleasure to use. The one thing that it teaches you though, is how to expose properly. Let's face it, with Tri-X, we all wing it. Off by a stop? No big deal, we can fix it in the darkroom. With the Monochrom, lost highlights are just that...lost! Some people blame poor dynamic range, which is just a bunch of bullshit. The camera has plenty of DR..but you just can't be sloppy with it. I've recorded scenes with an SBR of 8 without problems, and there is plenty of detail to be dragged out of shadows, without getting too much noise in the mix. In short, it is a fantastic camera and prints from it are beautiful.

Max

 

[Pioneer]

Sounds great. I bought the M9 recently and I have been enjoying it but I still wonder how much better the Monochrom would be. Post some shots when you get something you like.

 

[jimcollum]

also an M9 owner.. one of my all time favorite cameras... literally have it with me at all times (my 'sketch book' for projects). have had 0 issues with it so far (took it for a week at Burning Man.. with no problems there either)
MM looks interesting... but actually find post processing the b/w filters after to be more flexible for me

have seen files, and it looks fantastic for low light (when did change from being a 'low light' situation shooting iso 400 to iso 25,600??)

 

[Pioneer]

have seen files, and it looks fantastic for low light (when did change from being a 'low light' situation shooting iso 400 to iso 25,600??)

Absolutely!! I have been using fast glass and TriX or HP5 for a long time in low light scenarios. It works great. Even when I am using Delta Pro 3200 I have only gone above ISO 1600 a couple times just to see what it looked like. But that just ain't good enough anymore. Nowadays you have to have no noise at 12600 iso. At least according to the "unbiased" reviewers all over the internet.

I am enjoying my new M9 but I have to say that I still love using my IIIc and I rarely need anything faster than 400 ISO. And though I have not had a chance to do it yet I strongly suspect that I will enjoy printing my M9 images even if they have been taken at ISO 1600.

 

[MaximusM3]

Yes, low light/insane ISO for some reason always leads pointless discussions. I frankly don't get it. I love TMZ and Delta3200 for what they are. The fact there is a little noise/grain at the 3200 level in the Monochrom, does not bother me one bit and I welcome it. The beauty in the Monochrom, is that noise is very "organic", much like film. That is a big difference between it and the M9. By removing the bayer filter, much has improved in the capturing of images, with one caveat being again the inability of recovering lost highlights in one of the three channels. In extreme contrast situations, one has to choose what detail is to be retained and how much to under-expose and then recover from shadows. What I have noticed also in the Monochrom, is that blown highlights in bright backgrounds, look very natural. To me, digital lost highlights always have ugly transitions between dark and light and just don't look natural. They do with the Monochrom. To my eyes, another important difference I have noticed is that M9 converted images always seem to need more work to look like true monochrome film images, whether with the Monochrom, they look so good in their raw state, that I often find myself barely tweaking anything. It's like a well exposed and developed piece of film. A little burning of the corners, a little dodge either and there, and it's done. I don't enjoy post digital post processing at all, so for me, the camera removes a lot of the fuss involved with it and leaves me with more time to create and print.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

A true, black and white digital Leica. I am not rich and would have to sell almost my entire collection but I am certainly tempted. It would take forever to buy any more than one lens, but that may not be all that bad.

Thoughts everyone? Whatcha think?

well, next week I'll have the opportunity to compare it side-by-side with my Nikon D800. then,I'll be able to tell, but I'm hoping thatan image that started as a 14bit-color capture,andconverted in PSand beefed up by somebody who knows what they are oing
(me
)will beat the LeicaMonochrome capture.Let's see where my big mouth gets me.I'll report.

 

[Pioneer]

well, next week I'll have the opportunity to compare it side-by-side with my Nikon D800. then,I'll be able to tell, but I'm hoping thatan image that started as a 14bit-color capture,andconverted in PSand beefed up by somebody who knows what they are oing
(me
)will beat the LeicaMonochrome capture.Let's see where my big mouth gets me.I'll report.

That will be interesting. Looking forward to your conclusions Ralph.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

the conclusion will be to hang on to my money. when we die,the guy with the most stuff wins.so what?

 

[Pioneer]

I have rented the Monochrom twice and have come very, very close to pulling the trigger for real a couple of times. My problem is that, although I love using black and white, I also enjoy working in color sometimes. Since I can't afford to own both that means I make a total commitment to black and white when I go to the MM. There is also a part of me that says I am buying the MM is to avoid really learning to do black and white conversions in software. I have some books, and I am getting better at black & white conversion but all the help available is welcome.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

A true, black and white digital Leica. I am not rich and would have to sell almost my entire collection but I am certainly tempted. It would take forever to buy any more than one lens, but that may not be all that bad.

Thoughts everyone? Whatcha think?

when we die; the guy with the most stuff wins. well no. we all lose at tthat point.

 

[MaximusM3]

I've personally learned to love my Monochrom. It does exactly what is supposed to do and does it well. It puts me in a shooting flow that is similar to film (filters) and with no need to jump through hoops to convert later. I'm using it exclusively for my photogravure work, since I see no reason to torture myself scanning film to make digital positives for copper. The monochrom offers level of details that are in the medium format category, and for alternate process work, the possibilities are endless. I have a section on my website for the Monochrom/photogravure work, @ Dead Link Removed

 

[RalphLambrecht]

That will be interesting. Looking forward to your conclusions Ralph.

I'm mostly interested;what's the better way to pproceed:
1. remove the bayer filterala Leica Mnichrome or2. remove the moire filter ala NikonD800e

 

[Pioneer]

I'm mostly interested;what's the better way to pproceed:
1. remove the bayer filterala Leica Mnichrome or2. remove the moire filter ala NikonD800e

I am far from an expert on this but it was my understanding that there was no moire filter on any of the digital Leicas. If that is true than option one is probably the only issue, though obviously a little bit tricky.