Thinking about getting into Panoramic; which camera?

Roseha · Jan 11, 2015

Sorry to post in two forums, but I just asked in the Holga forum whether anyone offers a service to convert a Holgapan 120 to a Holgagon (I have the Holgapan already). I really like the images I've seen from the Holgagon, but that kind of DIY work isn't something I could do. Does anyone offer such a service? Thanks

houstonphotographics · Jan 12, 2015

google "holgamods". I actually spoke with Randy (owner) and I am going to have him do a convert of a 612 holga pan to replace with a Schnieder angulon 90mm

Roseha · Jan 12, 2015

houstonphotographics said:
google "holgamods". I actually spoke with Randy (owner) and I am going to have him do a convert of a 612 holga pan to replace with a Schnieder angulon 90mm

Thanks very much for the info, I am on the lookout for a lens and rangefinder and will look into contacting him after that. Has anyone tried this with a lens other than the angulon?

Loren Sattler · Jan 14, 2015

Houston, I borrowed a Widelux 7 a couple of years ago. It uses 35mm film, but the wide format ends up acting much like 120 when printing the negatives. The negs measure 1 inch tall x about 2-1/4 inch wide, thus the quality is similar to what you expect with 120 film.

LJH · Jan 14, 2015

IMO, there is no better camera than the Shen Hao 617. It is compact (compared to cone cameras), offers myriad options for lenses, allows macro/close-up and allows camera movements.

http://www.shen-hao.com/PRODUCTSabout.aspx?i=939&id=n3

And it is a quarter of the price of the Ebony 617.

I've traveled the world with mine. A SH 617 and 3 lenses easily fits a carry on bag.

As for Holga retrofits? Even if you could polish a turd, you'd still just be left with a polished turd...

LJH · Jan 14, 2015

Loren Sattler said:
Houston,The negs measure 1 inch tall x about 2-1/4 inch wide, thus the quality is similar to what you expect with 120 film.

You might want to reconsider this claim.

1x2-1/4" is far from what you'll get from 120. This is a significant distortion of fact. 2.25 square inches hardly compares to even 6x12cm (approx. 11 square inches), let alone 6x17cm (approx. 14 square inches).

250swb · Jan 14, 2015

LJH said:
As for Holga retrofits? Even if you could polish a turd, you'd still just be left with a polished turd...

As has been proven with skill and care it is possible to polish a turd

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiJ9fy1qSFI

and you could say with skill and care a Holga retrofit can trump buying a fancy camera that itself is not immune to the production of shit, as long as a photographer is involved along the way.

Steve

yurihuta · Dec 7, 2015

I have been using a Widelux F8 (with longer lasting gears and shoots 35mm film) and enjoy that so much that I started looking for a Widelux 1500 (shoots 120 film) a couple of years ago. The 1500 appear regularly (relative speak as they are pretty rare to start with) on the big auction site and there are some of the older Panon 120 that pop up from time to time. Most of the 1500 show up in beautiful shape with boxes and instruction manuals and sell for $1500 or more. The Panon 120 that show up (generally) appear to be in 'rougher' shape and sell for $1000 or less, sometimes a lot less - but check to see if the Panon 120 can be serviced.

I know the Widelux 1500 can still be serviced as Bob of Dead Link Removed worked on the one I eventually picked up. I made a best offer on one that looked to be very clean, but the seller inherited the camera and knew nothing about it. So, some nice deals come up for these once in a while.

houstonphotographics said:
forgot to mention in the above re/ eventual swing lens camera want; 120 format..

Sirius Glass · Dec 7, 2015

I have my WideLux F7 serviced by Tempe Camera. http://www.tempecamera.biz/REPAIR_DEPARTMENT_s/17.htm

Texsport · Dec 14, 2015

My earliest photographic desire was a panoramic camera.

For this discussion, I'm assuming that maximum quality is always the goal when you set up.

I acquired a Linhof 617 30-35 years ago and have used it a lot.

Over the years, I have experienced that full sized panoramic cameras are rather unwieldy, and also getting worthy subjects becomes more difficult, the wider your lens/camera combination's field of view.

So, I have adapted somewhat.

For planned, studied panoramics, I use 3 120 format cameras - each with a wider format - Linhof 617/90mm, Fujica 690/50 and 65mm, and a Noblex150 - that's from about 85* to 140* Angles-of-view.

For unplanned, spontaneous panoramics, I have adopted a similar strategy, in 35mm format- Xpan and Widelux7 - interesting shots taken with these cameras are often duplicated later with the larger format cameras.

The order of use - most often to least often:

XPan
Widelux7
Fujica 690
Linhof 617
Noblex150

The order in which I purchased the cameras, over years was:

Linhof 617
XPan
Fujica 690
Widelux7
Noblex150

Most fun to use:

Widelux7 - but fewer labs can scan this format conveniently, if you don't do it yourself.

Camera which has actually produced the most wall worthy photos:

Fujica 690/65mm lens

Texsport

Loren Sattler · Dec 14, 2015

Widelux acts like medium format

My limited experience with panoramic was with a borrowed Widelux (7 I believe). It was fun and easy to use similar to a 35mm SLR. It used 35mm film which I thought would severely limit the quality of images made in my darkroom.
To my surprise, the images were sharper than expected because the resulting negatives were medium format in size (left to right) and easy to work with. My medium format enlarger did a great job with them. Note, my largest enlargements were on 11 x 14 in paper.

Texsport · Dec 15, 2015

Regarding my earlier post above......

Larger cameras for planned panoramic photos almost always are utilized with a sturdy tripod, while spontaneous, smaller format cameras can obviously be operated with or without a tripod or monopod, the main reason to use them.

Texsport

Sirius Glass · Dec 15, 2015

Loren Sattler said:
My limited experience with panoramic was with a borrowed Widelux (7 I believe). It was fun and easy to use similar to a 35mm SLR. It used 35mm film which I thought would severely limit the quality of images made in my darkroom.
To my surprise, the images were sharper than expected because the resulting negatives were medium format in size (left to right) and easy to work with. My medium format enlarger did a great job with them. Note, my largest enlargements were on 11 x 14 in paper.

I put my Widelux F7 on a post screwed into the tripod socket so that I keep my fingers out of the photograph.

LJH · Dec 16, 2015

6x9 is not panoramic.

darkosaric · Dec 16, 2015

Loren Sattler said:
My limited experience with panoramic was with a borrowed Widelux (7 I believe). It was fun and easy to use similar to a 35mm SLR. It used 35mm film which I thought would severely limit the quality of images made in my darkroom.
To my surprise, the images were sharper than expected because the resulting negatives were medium format in size (left to right) and easy to work with. My medium format enlarger did a great job with them. Note, my largest enlargements were on 11 x 14 in paper.

I had similar experience: with borrowed Widelux and borrowed Noblex, easy to work and fun. Even being plastic - Noblex was nicer and easier to use for me comparing to Widelux.

Some examples how scanned 11x14 print looks like (used Meopta Magnifax medium format enlarger):

Dead Link Removed
Dead Link Removed
Dead Link Removed
Dead Link Removed

Film used was cheap Polypan F developed in Rodinal 1+100 (semi-stand).

Texsport · Dec 16, 2015

LJH said:
6x9 is not panoramic.

Only if you are defining panoramic as a ratio!

A 6x9 camera with a 50mm lens has a wider angle-of-view than a 6x17 camera with a standard 90mm lens. so, a 6x9 negative created using a wide lens can to cropped to different per portions and end up having the same 3:1 proportions as a 6x17, but with wider view.

When more vertical view is needed, the 6x9 can capture more, AND be wider.

Texsport

AgX · Dec 16, 2015

Texsport said:
Only if you are defining panoramic as a ratio!

But to my understanding that is the definition.
Though of course angle of view is another factor to take into account.

LJH · Dec 16, 2015

Texsport said:
Only if you are defining panoramic as a ratio!

I am, it is, so we do.

BAC1967 · Dec 16, 2015

Another to consider in 35mm is the KMZ FT-2. It's a swing lens with a curved film plane. It's not the easiest to use but they are more affordable than most. Do a bit of research before you run out and get one. They say you can't use them without the special film cartridges that you would need to re-load film into but I made a few minor modifications and have been using mine without the cartridges. You just have to load the film in a dark bag or dark room.

KMZ FT-2 by Bryan Chernick, on Flickr

Marina Park by Bryan Chernick, on Flickr

Dan Fromm · Dec 16, 2015

LJH said:
6x9 is not panoramic.

I shoot 6x9 and I agree completely. If 6x9 is panoramic, 24x36 is panoramic. Sheesh!

Dan Fromm · Dec 16, 2015

Texsport said:
Only if you are defining panoramic as a ratio!

A 6x9 camera with a 50mm lens has a wider angle-of-view than a 6x17 camera with a standard 90mm lens. so, a 6x9 negative created using a wide lens can to cropped to different per portions and end up having the same 3:1 proportions as a 6x17, but with wider view.

When more vertical view is needed, the 6x9 can capture more, AND be wider.

Texsport

I think you're confusing the gate's aspect ratio with cropped aspect ratio. By your logic cropping a Minox shot makes the Minox a panoramic camera.

I also think that you made some arithmetic errors. That or you're mistaken about gate sizes. 6x9's horizontal angle of view with a 50 mm lens is ~ 79 degrees. 6x17's horizontal angle of view with a 90 mm lens is ~ 87 degrees. The gates' lengths are, respectively, ~ 82 mm and ~ 170 mm.

Sirius Glass · Dec 16, 2015

LJH said:
6x9 is not panoramic.

Dan Fromm said:
I shoot 6x9 and I agree completely. If 6x9 is panoramic, 24x36 is panoramic. Sheesh!

+1

If 6x9 is panoramic, then 6x6 would probably be panoramic too especially if photographed with a SWC or with a 30mm lens.

Texsport · Dec 16, 2015

Then an XPan with a 45mm lens isn't a panoramic, because it has a 70* angle-of-view.

Texsport

Dan Fromm · Dec 16, 2015

Texsport said:
Then an XPan with a 45mm lens isn't a panoramic, because it has a 70* angle-of-view.

Texsport

Oh, dear, you persist in silliness. The angle the lens coveres doesn't make a camera panoramic. The gate's aspect ratio makes a camera panoramic.

The XPan's gate is switchable between 24x36 (1.5:1, not panoramic) and 24x65 (2.7:1, generally accepted as panoramic).

I shoot a 38/4.5 Biogon on 2x3 on a Century Graphic. It very nearly covers 24x82, aspect ratio 3.4:1; a couple of mm in each corner have no image. Panoramic crop from a 2x3 image shot with a 2x3 camera with a wide angle lens. I could do the same with my 35/4.5 Apo Grandagon, 45/9 Dagor, 47/5.6 Super Angulon, ... except that those lenses put good image in 24x82's corners. Who needs an XPan? Oh, and by the way, the roll holders I use with the Century have gates that are ~ 57 x 82. The Century absolutely isn't a panoramic camera.

darkosaric · Dec 17, 2015

If you shoot 6x9 and crop it to 3x9 - then it is panoramic ?

Thinking about getting into Panoramic; which camera?

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