The State of Kodak/SinoPromise Chemistry

[MattKing]

Yes, it has to be made in the USA. It just isn't manufactured by Sino Promise. It is manufactured in the USA for Sino Promise - who market and distribute it.
And for clarity, while trained as a lawyer in Canada, .I've been retired from practise for more than 14 years now.

 

[mshchem]

Pure speculation on my part, my bet is Freestyle is making the US stuff for Sino Promise. Who knows?

 

[Steven Lee]

@mshchem Freestyle is just a retailer / rebrander (AFAIK Arista & EcoPro brands). They don't manufacture anything. This is quite annoying in photo chemistry market: nobody knows who makes anything. Kodak, Ilford, Arista, EcoPro - they are all meaningless sequences of characters at this point. Engineering & Manufacturing in film photography business does not have a name. Except ADOX, of course.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

Pure speculation on my part, my bet is Freestyle is making the US stuff for Sino Promise. Who knows?

I wouldn't be so sure of that. I carry most all of the Arista and now Legacy Pro stuff, and a lot of it comes out of Dexter Michigan, the same outfit that makes the UniColor C-41 kits. Given that a lot of the Legacy Pro stuff looks just like the newer Kodak stuff (at least the liquid bottles do), just with a different label, it makes me wonder if they're the ones making most of this.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

This is what got me to thinking there's something going on with the chemistry. The Kodak stop bath is what has been shipping for a while now, and the bottle pictured is what I received today. The LegacyPro stop bath is what I've recently started to carry. The wetting agent and photo Flo, and several other bottles are shockingly similar to each other.

The Legacy Pro powders are in silver mylar bags, so those don't match up with what Kodak has been shipping, but the liquids, are shockingly similar to Legacy Pro stuff.

 

[MattKing]

It's also possible that those bottles are US manufactured and available for sale to any manufacturer - thus used for many different things.

 

[mshchem]

Freestyle's F&S Distributing is what I suspect is helping out here.

The Dexter Michigan operation seems to be the original Unicolor site, goes back decades, agree that these guys are making color chemistry.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

It's also possible that those bottles are US manufactured and available for sale to any manufacturer - thus used for many different things.

That also is totally true. There's actually only a handful of bottle manufacturers that make bottles in the sizes needed that are also suitable for chemistry, so it could be a complete coincidence too. Unless somebody in the know lets on what is going on, it's hard to tell, but, it did give me pause.

 

[Steven Lee]

@Adrian Bacon their front page is inviting: "Talk to us!" with a phone number. Call and ask?

Graphic Chemical Manufacturing | Dexter, MI - Photo Systems Inc.

Photo Systems Inc., based in Dexter, MI, specializes in graphic chemical manufacturing. Turn to us when you need film-processing chemicals for your needs.

www.photosys.com

 

[Adrian Bacon]

@Adrian Bacon their front page is inviting: "Talk to us!" with a phone number. Call and ask?

Graphic Chemical Manufacturing | Dexter, MI - Photo Systems Inc.

Photo Systems Inc., based in Dexter, MI, specializes in graphic chemical manufacturing. Turn to us when you need film-processing chemicals for your needs.

www.photosys.com

If you'd like to call them, go ahead, though I very much doubt that they'd divulge any info about clients and what they do for those clients. NDAs are standard operating procedure.

 

[mshchem]

@Adrian Bacon their front page is inviting: "Talk to us!" with a phone number. Call and ask?

Graphic Chemical Manufacturing | Dexter, MI - Photo Systems Inc.

Photo Systems Inc., based in Dexter, MI, specializes in graphic chemical manufacturing. Turn to us when you need film-processing chemicals for your needs.

www.photosys.com

https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_mi/800039212

 

[cmacd123]

I know that many of the MSDS files for freestyle's chemicals mention Photo systems Inc.

 

[mshchem]

I know that many of the MSDS files for freestyle's chemicals mention Photo systems Inc.

View attachment 342595

This looks like a family business, could be PSI is blending up Kodak and Freestyle??

 

[MattKing]

FWIW, those indicator stop bath bottles that Adrian has pictures of look identical to the bottles of Mrs. Meyers cleaner that we use in our kitchen!

 

[mshchem]

FWIW, those indicator stop bath bottles that Adrian has pictures of look identical to the bottles of Mrs. Meyers cleaner that we use in our kitchen!
View attachment 342605

Mrs. Meyer's Basil Indicator Stop Bath!

 

[Adrian Bacon]

FWIW, those indicator stop bath bottles that Adrian has pictures of look identical to the bottles of Mrs. Meyers cleaner that we use in our kitchen!
View attachment 342605

Except they're half the size at 473ml.

 

[MattKing]

Except they're half the size at 473ml.

At home we have a variety of Mrs. Meyers products, in a variety of different sized and shaped bottles, including one in a bottle that contains 32 oz, but could easily contain a litre.
I just pulled that image from the internet, for illustration.

 

[mshchem]

HDPE Plastic Cylinder Bottles

Find durable HDPE Plastic Cylinder bottles for a wide variety of applications from personal care to household cleaners. Choose your cap to customize. In Stock.

www.berlinpackaging.com

Anyone can buy plastic bottles. These are standard items.

 

[chuckroast]

This is what got me to thinking there's something going on with the chemistry. The Kodak stop bath is what has been shipping for a while now, and the bottle pictured is what I received today. The LegacyPro stop bath is what I've recently started to carry. The wetting agent and photo Flo, and several other bottles are shockingly similar to each other.

The Legacy Pro powders are in silver mylar bags, so those don't match up with what Kodak has been shipping, but the liquids, are shockingly similar to Legacy Pro stuff.

View attachment 342514

It depends on the product. Stop Bath is just dilute white vinegar. Indicator stop bath just has a component that changes color when the acidity drops (the pH goes up). I've never bothered though. I use either Glacial Acetic Acid and dilute to 28% to make stop bath stock, and I mix that 6oz/gal of working stop bath. OR I mix 1 part pure white distilled cooking vinegar with 3 parts water to get to working stop bath. Either way, it's very cheap and not worth keeping after use. I doubt anyone is printing enough to exhaust this in a single day's use.


Dektol is easily replaced with D-72 to formula Formulas for D-76 and DK-50 are widely known. Ditto D-23. HC-110 and Microdol-X are tougher but there's enough data out there to come pretty close. Hypo Clear is trivial.

But the one thing that ain't so easy is Kodak Rapid Selenium Toner. With all the supply chain issues and now the shutdown of Kodak chemistry, I stocked up on a LOT Of KRST. I wouldn't have done so if I had not already been using it for years.

 

[pentaxuser]

But the one thing that ain't so easy is Kodak Rapid Selenium Toner. With all the supply chain issues and now the shutdown of Kodak chemistry, I stocked up on a LOT Of KRST. I wouldn't have done so if I had not already been using it for years.

Isn't the Ilford Selenium Toner very similar in its action?

pentaxuser

 

[Sal Santamaura]

Isn't the Ilford Selenium Toner very similar in its action?...

Surprisingly, when I compared them years ago, the results differed visibly. Much warmer with Ilford's version.

 

[chuckroast]

Isn't the Ilford Selenium Toner very similar in its action?

pentaxuser

No idea, but it would be a change to my process and I want to avoid this for as long as possible.

 

[Dusty Negative]

Went to B&H to order more HC-110. Here's what I got. Did I miss some news?

 

[MattKing]

Went to B&H to order more HC-110. Here's what I got. Did I miss some news?

View attachment 343442

That is most probably the short-lived - in more ways than one - 2019 version that had a different catalogue number and MSDS and was made in the USA.
Who knows what the current situation is, but prior to the relatively recent set of notices about the possible demise of Sino Promise availability, there did seem to be HC-110 around that had reverted to the older catalogue number and MSDS, and indicated that it was made either in Germany or China.

 

[Dusty Negative]

That is most probably the short-lived - in more ways than one - 2019 version that had a different catalogue number and MSDS and was made in the USA.
Who knows what the current situation is, but prior to the relatively recent set of notices about the possible demise of Sino Promise availability, there did seem to be HC-110 around that had reverted to the older catalogue number and MSDS, and indicated that it was made either in Germany or China.

As my kids say, "My bad." I meant to post this screenshot: