The State of Kodak/SinoPromise Chemistry

[Adrian Bacon]

Does anybody know what's going on with Kodak Chemistry?

I've heard from more than once place that SinoPromise is (or has) shutting down production of Kodak chemistry, and it looked for a bit like there was a bunch of stuff that was gone. I ordered in a bunch of LegacyPro chemistry from FreeStyle to cover what I normally carry, and to my surprise, the bottles look to be exactly the same as what Kodak has been, but with a different LegacyPro sticker, and now when I look at Kodak chemistry on FreeStyle, they're all mostly in stock.

What is going on? Color me confused.

 

[mshchem]

I recently bought 5 packages of XTOL and 3 packages of Legacy pro Eco pro. Different color packages but look similar. Made in US. I suspect SinoPromise is licensing name/formula?? Not sure the US made chemistry goes to Europe??

Freestyle is definitely setup to blend and package. Still just a guess.

Adox, Freestyle, Foma and Ilford (and others) are good.

As far as color chemistry?????

 

[Scott J.]

I noticed a couple months ago that the Kodak Flexicolor Final Rinse appears to no longer be available in any package size. Some websites even list the various sizes as being discontinued. That's odd, given that the Flexicolor developers, starters, bleaches, and fixers all continue to be available. There's certainly some debate about the utility of a C-41 final rinse (the Flexicolor version is basically just a surfactant with a mild, copper-based biocide), but I'd be surprised to see Kodak officially discontinue it.

 

[koraks]

{Thread moved from B&W to industry news}

 

[MattKing]

FWIW, my contact at Eastman Kodak had no more information on this than we do, and Eastman Kodak was working to supply Sino Promise with one particular lab related product.

 

[halfaman]

Flexicolor and Ektacolor chemistry are almost gone in Europe since 2 years or so. And I think it would be difficult for Sino to regain any market share in the Old Continent. Like Tetenal, Kodak is a brand that distributors and labs don't trust anymore.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

FWIW, my contact at Eastman Kodak had no more information on this than we do, and Eastman Kodak was working to supply Sino Promise with one particular lab related product.

Well, I ordered a big batch of Kodak BW chemistry in, and Freestyle appears to have quite a bit of it in stock as they didn't back order any of it. Everything I just ordered hasn't been in stock with them for close to a month, and now it's in stock. Maybe it's the last order they put in with Sino Promise and the chemistry apocalypse is about to really hit us when that runs out, or maybe Kodak started sourcing their BW chemistry from the same manufacturer that makes the Legacy Pro stuff.

Who knows? I might reach out to the other places that I order from to see if they've heard anything.

 

[MattKing]

To the best of my knowledge, neither Eastman Kodak nor Kodak Alaris can use the Kodak brand on any of the still photography chemistry - that right is still in Sino Promise's hands - unless (aand I have no knowledge of the exact situation) it is in the hands of whatever fills the role of a bankruptcy trustee or receiver in Hong Kong.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

To the best of my knowledge, neither Eastman Kodak nor Kodak Alaris can use the Kodak brand on any of the still photography chemistry - that right is still in Sino Promise's hands - unless (aand I have no knowledge of the exact situation) it is in the hands of whatever fills the role of a bankruptcy trustee or receiver in Hong Kong.

Interesting. All I know is a bunch of their stuff effectively disappeared for over a month with "unofficial word" that they'd ceased operations, and now it looks like it's largely back, at least for the BW chemistry. So, I don't know. If I can order it and get it in, I will, as it sells quite well.

 

[MattKing]

Please share info about the labelling on the product you receive - where it is made, whether there are Sino Promise or other brandings on it, and what the best before information indicatees.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

Please share info about the labelling on the product you receive - where it is made, whether there are Sino Promise or other brandings on it, and what the best before information indicatees.

I received the shipment today. With the exception of the TMAX developer, all the product was manufactured in late 2022. The TMAX developer had a manufacturing date of 2023-05-23, so just over a month ago. All the labeling for the old new stock looks the same as it has been for a while. The TMAX developer labeling shows it was manufactured in the US by SinoPromise (see attached)

 

[mshchem]

All the XTOL I have purchased from B&H in the last month is made in USA.

 

[BryanFlnt]

I recently purchased XTOL from B&H and it had an Australian and Hong Kong label (Photo 1). Hearing about the supply issues I did a little bit of hoarding and bought some more from Glaziers Camera in Seattle. It looks like those packages have two labels and only the Australian address (Photo 2).

 

[Adrian Bacon]

Based on what I saw with my delivery today, if SinoPromise really has ceased manufacturing (I still haven't seen an official notice from them directly, just hearsay from Kodak distributors, who I guess would know), what we're seeing is the tail end of the production start to wind through the sales channel and unless manufacturing is sourced from somewhere else, the apocalypse will be upon us when that runs out. I give it another 6 months, max. I have about 30 days of supply as of today, and I have half a mind to pick up another 30-60 days right now, if I can.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

All the XTOL I have purchased from B&H in the last month is made in USA.

Is there a manufacturing date on any of the packets?

 

[Adrian Bacon]

I recently purchased XTOL from B&H and it had an Australian and Hong Kong label (Photo 1). Hearing about the supply issues I did a little bit of hoarding and bought some more from Glaziers Camera in Seattle. It looks like those packages have two labels and only the Australian address (Photo 2).
View attachment 342502View attachment 342503

Is there a manufacturing date anywhere?

 

[cmacd123]

If A us store is shipping product that is labeled for Australia, either they are buying a grey market product to obtain supplies, or the distribution system is winging it.
Sino-Promise is a HK based company, so they may very well use a HK address for the Asia -Pacific region.
I wonder of Eastman Kodak or Kodak ALaris have something in their contracts which require the return of the trademark license if the products are not being distributed to Kodak's Standards.

 

[cmacd123]

I recently purchased XTOL from B&H and it had an Australian and Hong Kong label (Photo 1). Hearing about the supply issues I did a little bit of hoarding and bought some more from Glaziers Camera in Seattle. It looks like those packages have two labels and only the Australian address (Photo 2).

The pictures unfortunatly are not coming though clear enough to read.

 

[BryanFlnt]

Is there a manufacturing date anywhere?

The package from B&H has date of 2022 on the back. The package from Glazer’s has a date from 2021. I would expect Glazer’s inventory to move slower than B&H.

 

[BryanFlnt]

The pictures unfortunatly are not coming though clear enough to read.

Sorry, the iPhone can’t get close enough and show the whole package. Here is a close up. Note that it is made in US for Sino Promise, but not from Hong Kong. Also notice one label over the other.

Was the month of no product while distributors put new labels on the product?

 

[mshchem]

Is there a manufacturing date on any of the packets?

"LOT:2022/03/18/15635 EXP:2025/03"

 

[mshchem]

Also my label has 2021 copyright, For distribution in USA.

 

[mshchem]

 

[MattKing]

I note the labels that say "for distribution in the USA".
All of the data in this thread tells me two things:
1) things are still really disrupted; and
2) product is around, and some of it is getting out there.
All the Sino Promise in Rochester badging most likely reflects Sino Promise's take over of parts of Kodak Alaris' infrastructure - although technically a UK company, their Kodak branded business (Kodak Alaris') was and is headquartered in the USA - actually in Rochester.
The double labeling may merely reflect Sino Promise getting packaging stock from Kodak Alaris as part of the late 2020 purchase by them of the business - better to add new labels than discard the bags and bottles.
By the way, I don't read the Made in U.S.A. language as saying that Sino Promise is doing the actual manufacture of the Black and White photochemistry - I don't believe they have USA manufacturing capacity.
And as for the Australia and other geographic references, that has been on packaging I've seen for years. It just reflects the factt that product is being made and manufactured for many different markets.

 

[Moose22]

By the way, I don't read the Made in U.S.A. language as saying that Sino Promise is doing the actual manufacture of the Black and White photochemistry - I don't believe they have USA manufacturing capacity.

That might get them in trouble with the FTC:

What is the standard for a product to be called Made in USA without qualification?​

For a product to be called Made in USA, or claimed to be of domestic origin without qualifications or limits on the claim, the product must be "all or virtually all" made in the U.S. The term "United States," as referred to in the Enforcement Policy Statement, includes the 50 states, the District of Columbia, and the U.S. territories and possessions.

What does "all or virtually all" mean?​

"All or virtually all" means that all significant parts and processing that go into the product must be of U.S. origin. That is, the product should contain no — or negligible — foreign content.

Complying with the Made in USA Standard

Introduction Basic Information About Made In USA Claims The Standard For Unqualified Made In USA Claims Qualified Claims Comparative Claims The FTC and The Customs Service Other Statutes What To Do About Violations Introduction The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) is charged with preventing

www.ftc.gov

You're a lawyer, I might be missing something here, but I think it says Made in the USA means it has to have been made in the USA.