The Reason for Film and Vintage Cameras

Discussion in 'Ethics and Philosophy' started by keenmaster486, Feb 5, 2018.

  1. Theo Sulphate

    Theo Sulphate Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,099
    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2014
    Location:
    Gig Harbor & Palm Springs
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Yes. I was trying to avoid the digital vs analog aspect and merely tease the young grasshopper with how photo discussion forums &c existed back in the mid to late 1980's.

    As for the "vintage cameras" origin of this thread, I had hoped that digital imaging hadn't entered into the discussion because cameras such as even an F4 or Rebel 2000 are sufficiently sophisticated to use in comparison to a Barnack Leica.
     
  2. E. von Hoegh

    E. von Hoegh Member

    Messages:
    5,868
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Location:
    Adirondacks
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    No one uses that anymore :wink:.
    But you're correct, code is binary and can be considered digital.
    The sort of radio the public listens to is still an analog technology
     
  3. E. von Hoegh

    E. von Hoegh Member

    Messages:
    5,868
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Location:
    Adirondacks
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I keep getting an error message.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
  4. Theo Sulphate

    Theo Sulphate Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,099
    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2014
    Location:
    Gig Harbor & Palm Springs
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Likely it doesn't. But, for me at least, it's not entirely about making a "better" image - it's about enjoying the process and having fun. It's a hobby, and the manner in which it's pursued doesn't need to be justified to shareholders or anyone, it just needs to please me.
     
  5. faberryman

    faberryman Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,152
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2016
    Location:
    Nashville
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I have an old hammer and a new hammer. They both pound nails. Using your grandfather's camera or an equivalent model off eBay makes no difference. If you have both, make sure you label them so you don't get confused. You'd hate to have a false warm and fuzzy moment.
     
  6. jtk

    jtk Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,144
    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2007
    Location:
    Albuquerque, New Mexico
    Shooter:
    35mm

    You're repetitively stating personal absolute beliefs. This isn't a religious chat room.

    "Things" are neither digital NOR analog. Those words are adjectives, not things (not nouns).

    I didn't say "brains function like microprocessors" but microprocessors are increasingly functioning like brains.

    We benefit by entertaining new ideas. Surely our idea of "good" is not "analogue".

    Bold can be more courteous than redundant statements of absolute belief.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
  7. wyofilm

    wyofilm Subscriber

    Messages:
    214
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2017
    Location:
    Wyoming
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    To jtk's comments above: What are you saying, then? I've tried my level best to figure it out. Your arguments lack any and all cohesion.

    Ahh ... I disagree completely. Don't confuse outcome with process. But this would be another thread.
     
  8. wyofilm

    wyofilm Subscriber

    Messages:
    214
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2017
    Location:
    Wyoming
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    To jtk's comments above: What are you saying, then? I've tried my level best to figure it out. Your arguments lack any and all cohesion.

    Ahh ... I disagree completely. Don't confuse outcome with process. But this would be another thread.
     
  9. wyofilm

    wyofilm Subscriber

    Messages:
    214
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2017
    Location:
    Wyoming
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    To jtk's comments above: What are you saying, then? I've tried my level best to figure it out. Your arguments lack any and all cohesion.

    Ahh ... I disagree completely. Don't confuse outcome with process. But this would be another thread.
     
  10. Theo Sulphate

    Theo Sulphate Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,099
    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2014
    Location:
    Gig Harbor & Palm Springs
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The dits and dahs are merely an encoded intelligence (the definition of a signal) imposed on top of an analog carrier. All radio transmission is electromagnetic wave propagation. But I know you know all this.
     
  11. E. von Hoegh

    E. von Hoegh Member

    Messages:
    5,868
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Location:
    Adirondacks
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The mode of code transmission is continuous wave, that means the transmitter is turned on and off to make dots and dashes. There is no carrier, it's truly binary.
     
  12. Theo Sulphate

    Theo Sulphate Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,099
    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2014
    Location:
    Gig Harbor & Palm Springs
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Oops. You're right. I'm getting old...
     
  13. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

    Messages:
    27,315
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    Location:
    Southern California
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Groups:
    No International Morse Code is not binary, it is tri-state dit '.' dah '-'and space ' '.
     
  14. Sponsored Ad
  15. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

    Messages:
    27,315
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    Location:
    Southern California
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Groups:
    It is still in use. I can and do use it. :tongue:
     
  16. jtk

    jtk Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,144
    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2007
    Location:
    Albuquerque, New Mexico
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I actually enjoy scanning. Got a couple of nice Pentaxes, got nice Nikor tanks and reels, got Rodinal. Got a Nikon scanner and an Epson scanner (with focusing film holder). Got a Canon Pro-10. Got Nik Silver Efex. Know how to use em'. And I got a couple of somewhat outdated digital cameras with some incredibly fine lenses.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
  17. blockend

    blockend Member

    Messages:
    3,622
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Location:
    northern eng
    Shooter:
    35mm
    The issue for me is photography is overwhelmingly dominated by camera talk. Whether that be the latest Nikon D850 vs Sony a7III, or Nikon F2 vs Canon F-1, or Rolleiflex vs Hasselblad, it's the same conversation. While the subject is interesting, and some cameras are nicer to use than others, one camera, type for type, format for format, is almost indiscernible from another in their output. As an Ethics and Philosophy board you might imagine it to be relatively free of camera churn, but it's another place to sound off about preferences.

    I've just spent the evening in the darkroom with some 35mm negatives from 2011, and without looking at the sheets I have no idea what camera they were taken on. A fancy SLR, a rangefinder or a point and shoot, it's almost impossible to tell. These conversations do not reflect that reality.
     
  18. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

    Messages:
    27,315
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    Location:
    Southern California
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Groups:
    Because you are wrong. Code is tri-state. ROTFLMAO
     
  19. E. von Hoegh

    E. von Hoegh Member

    Messages:
    5,868
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Location:
    Adirondacks
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    One form of fsk used international code, no spaces.
    The information content is binary, the spaces serve to make it intelligible in the case of cw transmissions.
     
  20. Theo Sulphate

    Theo Sulphate Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,099
    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2014
    Location:
    Gig Harbor & Palm Springs
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    You're right - it should be. Perhaps threads that go awry here should be moved to another forum.

    Same for me. When I'm looking at those negatives to decide which to print, I don't care about the camera or lens used, but more likely why I composed the scene so poorly.
     
  21. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

    Messages:
    27,315
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    Location:
    Southern California
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Groups:
    You are quibbling about details and pontificating to avoid the the fact that you were wrong generally and specifically. And yes there are always variations and in this case I know more about them then you. Jus' sayin'
     
  22. E. von Hoegh

    E. von Hoegh Member

    Messages:
    5,868
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Location:
    Adirondacks
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Well okey-dokey then! :smile:
     
  23. OP
    OP
    keenmaster486

    keenmaster486 Member

    Messages:
    570
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2016
    Location:
    Atroxus
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I am aware of these. They are only different protocols used for the same purpose, on fundamentally the same digital technology. My point was that there has been no fundamental change in how one computer connects to another halfway around the world, in the same way there has been a fundamental shift in how we create images.
     
  24. faberryman

    faberryman Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,152
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2016
    Location:
    Nashville
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    And?
     
  25. OP
    OP
    keenmaster486

    keenmaster486 Member

    Messages:
    570
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2016
    Location:
    Atroxus
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    The only point being that there is no irony in preferring film over digital, yet still using a computer to browse the internet and post on this forum, as some have attempted to smugly point out.

    Let's go back to the original purpose of this thread which was to criticize my hypothesis of reductionism and minimalism.

    Question: Does my hypothesis really hold water when taken to the extreme (i.e., basically using a box camera and making your own film) ? Or was it never meant to be taken to the extreme? I don't know the answer to this, I'm still thinking about it myself. The whole thing was just a shower thought I had.
     
  26. faberryman

    faberryman Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,152
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2016
    Location:
    Nashville
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    There may be irony depending on your stated reasons for choosing film over digital. There also may be irony if your preferred film camera is a Nikon F6 rather than a Kodak Bantam.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies. If you have a Photrio account, please log in (and select 'stay logged in') to prevent recurrence of this notice.
,