The myth of smoothness of leicas

[Radost]

You're saying you have 11 Leicas that need service??

Not really. They were serviced… ,most of them.

 

[reddesert]

You've clearly never used a good hammer.

I find Nikons about as interesting as lined paper. Frankly, there's not one that's actually pleasant to hold.

A good hammer, on the other hand, needs to be balanced or, after a day of using it, your wrist feels broken.

I drove 80 pounds of 3.5" nails using a hammer one day. I know.

Sure Don. BTW may I ask why you have 15 or so boring Nikons?

People always say you could drive nails using a Nikkormat. Maybe Don keeps them around for jobs where he doesn't want to use the good hammer?

Cameras are fun to talk about but they're also means to an end; it's nice to have good tools that feel nice to use but also the best camera is the one you have with you. No one ever accused a Canonet of winding like a freshly overhauled machine tool, but many of my own photos came from one.

 

[RezaLoghme]

I am on a longer train journey right now and have my M6 with me. Its smoothness is without any doubt.

 

[Don_ih]

boring Nikons

"Boring" isn't necessarily a bad thing for a camera, by the way. Using them is transparent - they don't draw your attention from taking the photo (even if they're a bit on the chunky side).

I have them because I haven't sold them.

 

[chuckroast]

You've clearly never used a good hammer.

I find Nikons about as interesting as lined paper. Frankly, there's not one that's actually pleasant to hold.

A good hammer, on the other hand, needs to be balanced or, after a day of using it, your wrist feels broken.

I drove 80 pounds of 3.5" nails using a hammer one day. I know.

Nikon film SLRs - especially the older ones - are the most mechanically sturdy 35mm cameras I've ever used. If I had done to other brands what I've done to a Nikon F in the field, the Mamiya, Ricoh, Sears, Olympus, Pentax, Minolta, Canon, Konica, et al 35mm cameras would have all been destroyed. For that matter, it would have destroyed my Hassies and Mamiya 645s and TLRs that I have owned. (Though I will say that the original Pentax Spotmatic comes in a close second. It was also built like a tank.)

I have had the dubious experience of standing up after reloading, forgetting to put on the strap and watching an Apollo F go skittering onto the concrete from over a meter up. It absorbed the hit with only a slight ding/scratch and kept right on shooting. I do not advocate treating fine machines this way, only point out that the Fs are beasts. I am told that the original Canon F1 - which I never used - was much the same.

Unfortunately, it is getting harder and harder to find someone to do a real CLA on an F or F2 because that involves removing the leatherette and pulling the mirror box out to properly service the business end of the shutter.

Leicas are certainly far more elegant cameras that work like a precision watch. But my M2 bears testimony to the fact you can't do things like that to it. I bought from a guy that had to have DAG service it after it took a hard bump. There is still some evidence of the event on the upper housing of the camera even after DAG hammered it out and readjusted it. It runs like silk though and I just got back from a couple week in NW Greece shooting with it pretty much every day. It's an absolute joy to use.

Different tools for different problems.

I do share your experience driving framing nails by hand - though only for a few weeks. I had tennis elbow for a few months after. Who knew you could buy a compressor to do that for you

 

[GregY]

CR, I've never dropped a Leica, but I did have my beloved black M2 go rolling across the tarmack as i was waiting for a helicopter land beside me. Dusted it off & kept on working like a charm.... & smoothly.

 

[GregY]

People always say you could drive nails using a Nikkormat. Maybe Don keeps them around for jobs where he doesn't want to use the good hammer?

Cameras are fun to talk about but they're also means to an end; it's nice to have good tools that feel nice to use but also the best camera is the one you have with you. No one ever accused a Canonet of winding like a freshly overhauled machine tool, but many of my own photos came from one.

 

[RezaLoghme]

 

[JerseyDoug]

My Nikon F's feel heavy and awkward enough that I was never comfortable using them without a neck strap. As a result I never dropped one of them on a hard surface. But my LTM Leicas are light and handy enough that I am more likely to carry them in a small bag and use them without a strap, which did result in my dropping one of the IIIc's pretty hard off a loading dock onto the concrete floor below. A fall of about six feet.

The fall dented the base plate pretty badly and knocked the rangefinder out of alignment. This was some time in the late 1960's. I bought a well used replacement base plate at Willoughby's in NYC for about price of a lunch at Horn & Hardart. (Those were the days!) I borrowed a couple of the little screwdrivers a friend used for working on fishing reels and realigned the rangefinder in about half an hour. I still have the IIIc and it still works a charm. And I remember the incident every time I notice the mismatched finish of the chrome of the top and the base plate.

 

[chuckroast]

People always say you could drive nails using a Nikkormat. Maybe Don keeps them around for jobs where he doesn't want to use the good hammer?

Cameras are fun to talk about but they're also means to an end; it's nice to have good tools that feel nice to use but also the best camera is the one you have with you. No one ever accused a Canonet of winding like a freshly overhauled machine tool, but many of my own photos came from one.

I dunno, but my ancient Nikkormat Ft keeps pounding away lo these many years after it was built with only minor stuff I had to do to keep the film advance lever snapping back cleanly. Even the meter works.

It's always been interesting to me that photographers, moreso than any other demographic in the "arts", seem as obsessed with the machinery that produces the art as the output itself. Maybe painters can go on and on for hours on brushes and paint, I dunno, because I've never heard them do that. The only group that comes close are recording engineers, especially the ones working in classical or acoustic recordings, who will bend your ear off talking about microphones, their placement, their deficiencies, and how it used to be better

It may be that, since photography is an inherently electromechanical, optical, chemical process, we're all a little more nerdy about that stuff.

 

[miha]

Leica R cameras are generally smooth. The R3 and R8/R9 are the smoothest, and the Leicaflex has great haptics. That said, I actually prefer using my Canon A-1 over the R4, as it just feels better in my hand, faster, more responsive... But that's completely personal, like everything else in this thread.

 

[RezaLoghme]

I dunno, but my ancient Nikkormat Ft keeps pounding away lo these many years after it was built with only minor stuff I had to do to keep the film advance lever snapping back cleanly. Even the meter works.

It's always been interesting to me that photographers, moreso than any other demographic in the "arts", seem as obsessed with the machinery that produces the art as the output itself. Maybe painters can go on and on for hours on brushes and paint, I dunno, because I've never heard them do that. The only group that comes close are recording engineers, especially the ones working in classical or acoustic recordings, who will bend your ear off talking about microphones, their placement, their deficiencies, and how it used to be better

It may be that, since photography is an inherently electromechanical, optical, chemical process, we're all a little more nerdy about that stuff.

Musicians, especially rock musicians.

 

[Don_ih]

@chuckroast -- I've taken apart (and put back together) Leica III cameras. They could definitely withstand more of a fall than any Nikon SLR. Like @JerseyDoug said, the most you should expect is a dent and the rangefinder getting messed up (which may be more problematic than you can fix with a screwdriver).

An M Leica, though, I doubt would fare as well - especially anything newer than an M4. Rangefinder damage to an M can be really expensive to fix.

 

[chuckroast]

@chuckroast -- I've taken apart (and put back together) Leica III cameras. They could definitely withstand more of a fall than any Nikon SLR. Like @JerseyDoug said, the most you should expect is a dent and the rangefinder getting messed up (which may be more problematic than you can fix with a screwdriver).

An M Leica, though, I doubt would fare as well - especially anything newer than an M4. Rangefinder damage to an M can be really expensive to fix.

Yes, I concur. I was thinking specifically of M bodies when I wrote what I did. My IIIf is just a piece of metal magic and is easily as indestructible as my Nikon Fs.

Coincidentally, I had DAG address a small issue with it a few weeks ago and I have it out today shooting some test images to confirm that all is well. The IIIf with a 35mm Color-Skopar and aux finder is just about the perfect travel film camera in my book. But, since it had just been serviced and untested, I instead took my M2 to Europe for 10 days earlier this month. It was an absolutely delightful camera to shoot with.

 

[GregY]

Musicians, especially rock musicians.

Vintage acoustic guitar owners......

 

[chuckroast]

Vintage acoustic guitar owners......

It reminds me of an old joke:

How do you get a guitar player to play more softly?

Put sheet music in front of them.

 

[JerseyDoug]

Vintage acoustic guitar owners......

Don't get me started about my 1937 Martin 0-17

 

[mshchem]

I love them all. So lucky to have been around to experience analog and digital excellence. Quite an interesting time to be alive!!!!

 

[GregY]

Don't get me started about my 1937 Martin 0-17

under the radar gems.... we've got a '35 0-17, all original.....& the tuners are smooth as a Leica

 

[dave olson]

Leica and smoothness, that's the question. From my perspective as owner/user; I have four different Leica Ms, as exhibit varying degrees of smoothness. I have two Leica Rs, again varying degrees of smoothness. My collection includes three new Canon F-1s, separated by a hundred thousand serial numbers (example 119,xxx, 266,xxx, 302,xxx. Add two Nikons.
Smoothness to me is mute.

 

[chuckroast]

Smoothness to me is mute.

Smoothness has nothing to say?

 

[cliveh]

First of all I have to clarify, M3 viewfinder is next to none. Quality wise nothing even gets close. I would not change it for anything
But,
Literally all my cameras have smoother wind than my 2 m3 and 1 m2.
I feel a lot of the myth of how smooth leica wind is is fan boy talk.
When I use my MInolta CLE the wind is million times smoother.

The viewfinder of the M2 is better than the M3 and if the wind on isn't smooth, perhaps it needs a service and clean. Have you ever wound on a Zenith camera? It's like two house bricks rubbing together.

 

[Don_ih]

Smoothness has nothing to say?

I personally have never heard a camera say anything, smooth or not.

I have pretended that many whispered to me "Buy me! Buy Me!" though.

 

[chuckroast]

I personally have never heard a camera say anything, smooth or not.

I have pretended that many whispered to me "Buy me! Buy Me!" though.

I think the word @dave olson was looking for was "moot", but it came out as "mute", hence my question about why the cameras were being so quiet

 

[skahde]

I'm on my fourth Leica M and also own a IIIf - two of them recently serviced by competent hands - and I feel they are acting very tight and pleasant but I could and can feel the gears on every sample I ever handled, brass or steel, and why not. No reason to get obsessed with it. With respect to smooth winding my Nikon F3 runs circles around them but with its lever flopping up and down because it isn't as tightly build and tolerances are obviously quite a bit bigger.