The Future of E-6

[Ces1um]

What evidence exists to support this supposition? Is there any at all or is this just a guess?

Kodak had a video posted on youtube about sending their super 8 film in to kodak to develop and sync audio to video. He may be extrapolating forward from that? It would make sense that they would process the products they sold though. Ilford does it already.

 

[Bob Carnie]

My parents and Grandparents sent in their box cameras with their shots inside to major plants supported by Kodak, History has a way of repeating itself.

 

[removed account4]

My parents and Grandparents sent in their box cameras with their shots inside to major plants supported by Kodak, History has a way of repeating itself.

all your posts seem spot on including this one.
they photofinished for 120 years, it would make sense.

 

[RattyMouse]

Kodak had a video posted on youtube about sending their super 8 film in to kodak to develop and sync audio to video. He may be extrapolating forward from that? It would make sense that they would process the products they sold though. Ilford does it already.

That's a big leap IMO. Supposedly this new E6 film is due to be released VERY soon. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the labs ready to go from DAY 1? I think so. Kodaks complete silence on this idea suggests that there are no plans for a consumer E6 lab.

 

[Ces1um]

That's a big leap IMO. Supposedly this new E6 film is due to be released VERY soon. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the labs ready to go from DAY 1? I think so. Kodaks complete silence on this idea suggests that there are no plans for a consumer E6 lab.

I guess we'll have to see.

 

[Rudeofus]

That's a big leap IMO. Supposedly this new E6 film is due to be released VERY soon. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the labs ready to go from DAY 1? I think so. Kodaks complete silence on this idea suggests that there are no plans for a consumer E6 lab.

E6 is not a new process about to be introduced by Kodak just now. You can buy film, kits for processing it yourself, and there are labs for having it processed. It may not be as convenient as it used to be twenty or thirty years ago, but those few who still hang in there with E6 found ways to make it work. I eagerly await Kodak's new product as my stash of E100VS both dwindles and decays, and rather have them focus on getting it ready for prime time soon than worry about infrastructure for E6 processing.

 

[eddie]

No need for Kodak to set up labs. There are still enough operating labs to meet the demand. They should consider setting up an E6 processing locator, much like Ilford’s darkroom locator. Maybe have the website with the locations listed on the packaging, to make it easier to search out labs.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

Stephen Frizza who is a member here runs a E6 lab in Australia and the daily numbers that he does allows for proper plots to create a consistent quality, he gets film from all over the world and his lab would be one of the locations that I think will be the last standing for film process, not a small vendor like me.

Considering Stephen is "just over the border", nobody down here in Victoria has heard of him, and that's the unusual thing in retail processing circles. Last time I was in Sydney my E6 was processed by Vision Lab in delightfully multicultural, if a tad rough, Redfern. They once held sole authority in Australia for processing all of the Kodachrome mailers -- remember those cute stiff paper things? Vision took over after the demise of Kodak Kiosks where PKL/PKR films could be dropped in.

It is widely believed here in Australia that Kodak's Ektachrome is being released into the general E6 market for processing, when and where you see fit -- and that is no big deal. As a bit of a gamble in a market that is already very well served by E6 products, and with the haunting spectre of the plainly awful E100-series Ektachrome stalking it, Kodak would need to establish a solid market for it, present and future-term, before committing to more formats or things like mail-in processing.

 

[RattyMouse]

E6 is not a new process about to be introduced by Kodak just now. You can buy film, kits for processing it yourself, and there are labs for having it processed. It may not be as convenient as it used to be twenty or thirty years ago, but those few who still hang in there with E6 found ways to make it work. I eagerly await Kodak's new product as my stash of E100VS both dwindles and decays, and rather have them focus on getting it ready for prime time soon than worry about infrastructure for E6 processing.

I never said E6 was a new process. I simply stated that there was no evidence to suggest Kodak is going to set up consumer labs for E6 processing.

 

[RattyMouse]

No need for Kodak to set up labs. There are still enough operating labs to meet the demand. They should consider setting up an E6 processing locator, much like Ilford’s darkroom locator. Maybe have the website with the locations listed on the packaging, to make it easier to search out labs.

E6 labs are closing down all the time.

Ferrania has already set up an E6 lab locator.

 

[Rudeofus]

I never said E6 was a new process. I simply stated that there was no evidence to suggest Kodak is going to set up consumer labs for E6 processing.

You made the implication that unless Kodak makes preparations for E6 labs, people would be unable to get their new Ektachromes developed, and that notion is dead wrong. Some E6 labs may call it quits after years of borderline low volume, so what, others continue just fine.

 

[AgX]

I can still get 8x10 E-6 done in this area, but no longer 8X10 C-41. They had to downsize and no longer had room for both machines. 4X5 and smaller is still readily available for both processes.

I assume they all are run in a roller transport machine. As that could explain that 4x5 can be run in both processes, but 8
x10 not.

Today a single hanger transport machine with tanks for all processes seems more economic. But still there must be enough throughput to allow no tank to stay idle filled too long.

 

[RattyMouse]

You made the implication that unless Kodak makes preparations for E6 labs, people would be unable to get their new Ektachromes developed, and that notion is dead wrong. Some E6 labs may call it quits after years of borderline low volume, so what, others continue just fine.

I did not mean to imply that. E6 labs are closing all the time and at some point will disappear as the cost will only continue to rise. Kodak entering the market or not, this will not change in my opinion.

 

[Rudeofus]

I did not mean to imply that. E6 labs are closing all the time and at some point will disappear as the cost will only continue to rise. Kodak entering the market or not, this will not change in my opinion.

There aren't that many E6 labs out there anyway, therefore I can hardly imagine where you take that trend of "labs closing all the time" from - most likely not from personal observation, but rather from your desire to rain on our parade. Kodak in its current form is no angel investor either. If they do another run of new Ektachrome, they do it because they see a market and likely profit from making this film. They know the market a whole lot better than anyone here, so I'd rather learn from their business decisions than from random speculation here on photrio.

E6 is nothing like Kodachrome. There are no critical compounds (special dye couplers, unusual color developers, ...) in E6 chemistry where disappearance from the market would be a show stopper either, so it will be possible for quite a while to process left over stock, even if all major manufacturers and labs call the shots at some point in time.

 

[Agulliver]

Kodak have stated that they will be offering packages such as "film, process + scan" when the new super 8 camera is launched. How far off that is, is anybody's guess. But the implication certainly is that Kodak will have arrangements with suitable labs in various parts of the world. Was it Kodak who asked people to tell them about local E6 labs? Or was that Ferrania?

 

[RattyMouse]

Kodak have stated that they will be offering packages such as "film, process + scan" when the new super 8 camera is launched. How far off that is, is anybody's guess. But the implication certainly is that Kodak will have arrangements with suitable labs in various parts of the world. Was it Kodak who asked people to tell them about local E6 labs? Or was that Ferrania?

That was Ferrania that collected worldwide E6 lab info.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

If they do another run of new Ektachrome, they do it because they see a market and likely profit from making this film. They know the market a whole lot better than anyone here, so I'd rather learn from their business decisions than from random speculation here on photrio.

Oh really?
By that logic, we should still have millions of boxes of their despised, poor-selling and long-defunct E100 and E100VS Ektachrome. So, where is it??
"they know the market a whole lot better than anyone else..."
Bullshit. Kodak have entirely misread and ignored the forward mementum of a changing market to the point that it brought about their own downfall.

 

[Rudeofus]

Oh really?
By that logic, we should still have millions of boxes of their despised, poor-selling and long-defunct E100 and E100VS Ektachrome. So, where is it??

Some of it is in my freezer, and I already see slight signs of deterioration. I doubt anyone could sell these rolls as "new product" commercially today.

"they know the market a whole lot better than anyone else..."
Bullshit. Kodak have entirely misread and ignored the forward mementum of a changing market to the point that it brought about their own downfall.

They sure did, yet they are still around, despite of fifteen plus years of constant raging by self declared experts that they are about to die. I remember that saying about Apple back then "their going out of business has been predicted for longer than most of these experts have been in business". Yes, Kodak spectacularly misjudged the impact of digital photography twenty years ago and had to declare bankruptcy - yet I can still buy fresh rolls of Tri-X and Portra.

 

[RattyMouse]

Oh really?
By that logic, we should still have millions of boxes of their despised, poor-selling and long-defunct E100 and E100VS Ektachrome. So, where is it??
"they know the market a whole lot better than anyone else..."
Bullshit. Kodak have entirely misread and ignored the forward mementum of a changing market to the point that it brought about their own downfall.

It's inexplicable that some think that Kodak management has a clue. They are literally a text book example of how awful managers and executives can fail. Not one single plan of theirs has come to fruition in decades. Even today the move into commercial printing has not proven itself to be sustainable. Revenues continue to drop quarter after quarter.

 

[railwayman3]

Some of it is in my freezer, and I already see slight signs of deterioration. I doubt anyone could sell these rolls as "new product" commercially today.

Interesting......I'm working through a considerable stock of E6 films, all in my freezer since purchase new, and, for the first time, am noticing slight deterioration in E100 from about 2007 (slight colour shifts). Starting to think that I ought to try to use up all my E6 in the next 1-2 years.

 

[Rudeofus]

Kodak used to be an outfit specialized in highly advanced chemistry and coating, producing and selling probably the most advanced materials in this category to movie industry, defense industry and consumers. All three branches bought massive amounts of product for good money, until they all of a sudden lost interest in this product within very few years. Not every business situation can be solved by some uber-geniuses, and companies who have just lost 90-95% of their market are hardly attractive to those few uber-geniouses who could. Current and past management may not have been the best choices to handle such a situation, but given that I can still buy Tri-X, Portra and soon E100 means they did something right - for me at least.

 

[removed account4]

SNIP SNIP

Not one single plan of theirs has come to fruition in decades.

right on cue for another EK beat down thread !
sorry you are a bit off.
2 decades ago kodak was riding the gravy train
and despite all the negative nancys' criticism still puts
film out, and is reformulating emulsions for shorter runs.

 

[RattyMouse]

SNIP SNIP

right on cue for another EK beat down thread !
sorry you are a bit off.
2 decades ago kodak was riding the gravy train
and despite all the negative nancys' criticism still puts
film out, and is reformulating emulsions for shorter runs.

It just seems like 2 decades.

 

[Steve Roberts]

Why in some posts of this thread does there seem to be an underlying assumption that users of E6 don't project the fruits of their labours? Two posts mention this specifically. To me, the whole point of shooting slide film is to be able to enjoy the results at their best as they were originally intended to be shown. Sure, I may sometimes scan slides for specific purposes such as magazine submissions, but that's a fudge and simply a convenient means to an end.
Shoot, project and enjoy! (and then buy more film....)
Steve

 

[flavio81]

It's inexplicable that some think that Kodak management has a clue. They are literally a text book example of how awful managers and executives can fail.

This needs to be repeated once more.

It's inexplicable that some think that Kodak management has a clue. They are literally a text book example of how awful managers and executives can fail.