The Future of Colour and B&W Film with Ilford...

[dcy]

I couldn't have said it better. If you want to get somewhere: Get up and go. Stumbling evolves into walking, transforms into running. Just be consistent and go on.

Ah, but you see, that only works if there is such a path: stumbling --> walking --> running.

If you had to start with running, that'd be a problem. Some people would do it, but not many, and I hope you wouldn't blame people for that. Going back to the darkroom case. If you have access to someone else's darkroom, you have a path. If you don't have that kind of access, it's not much of a gradual path. Either you buy a 30 year-old machine that you have zero experience with and hope you can make it work, or you don't. It's one thing if you've at least used similar machines before and you know you like using them. It's another if you don't have experience to help you judge if something is worth attempting.

 

[dcy]

true of shipping anything big or heavy....

Yes.

 

[GregY]

Within New Mexico, and over to Phoenix AZ i'd be very surprised if you couldn't find a medium format enlarger......

 

[DREW WILEY]

I can't imagine enlargers ever disappearing. They really aren't all that hard to cobble together if you can't find a manufactured one, or if you just enjoy shop projects. I even have a quite sophisticated 8X10 color enlarger which I built from the ground up according to my own design - pretty much everything except the lenses. But I've also refurbished various older commercial enlargers and colorheads.

Where there's a will, there's a way. There have been plenty of impoverished photographers who nonetheless did great work. Alfred Stiegiltz developed film and prints using a tray ladder in his office closet, and contact exposed them using window light.

 

[dcy]

Within New Mexico, and over to Phoenix AZ i'd be very surprised if you couldn't find a medium format enlarger......

There's also El Paso nearby.

When I decide I want to invest in a new enlarger, I will definitely look in the local area first.

 

[dcy]

I can't imagine enlargers ever disappearing. They really aren't all that hard to cobble together if you can't find a manufactured one, or if you just enjoy shop projects.

I tried to build one and it was pretty awful. It didn't help that I had never seen one in real life. It probably helps if you have shop skills and know what you're aiming for.

 

[DREW WILEY]

No different than building a table or kitchen cabinet, or fixing a boat or motorcycle. Lots of people have basic shop skills, and those who don't are often good at enlisting the help of those who do, or paying them for it. I wasn't allowed to take shop classes in High School; that was for "dummies" (who now make a lot of money). I was expected to read Sophocles and Chaucer instead. But my father had a big machine shop under his supervision, and one of my first summer jobs was tending a rural electrical and irrigation supply store, where the rancher customers themselves taught me all kinds of skills. Little did I know that one day I'd be importing and selling all kinds of fancy shop machinery. A step at a time, that's all it takes.

 

[GregY]

There's also El Paso nearby.

When I decide I want to invest in a new enlarger, I will definitely look in the local area first.

Check out Austin as well..... worth the 600mi drive
There was a Beseler 23 C in what looked like beautiful condition for $85

 

[skahde]

It's another if you don't have experience to help you judge if something is worth attempting.

It's always worth attempting if you value the possible outcome more than you fear the risk to fail. If you would put just as much energy in finding ways to get there as in explaining why you don't, this discussion would have come to an end already.
You could have put your insecurity aside and make a start. Most of us probably had less help during their first steps than you have with forums and youtube-vids explaining every part and step.

But obviously you already decided otherwise which is absolutely fine but it means there is no more reason for making us imagine ways to help you out.

 

[MattKing]

Ebay has lots of advantages, but as a marketplace for big, heavy things that are difficult/expensive to ship, it fails miserably.
And it is still the case that the supply of used enlargers is large, and therefore the price that they command is small, and as a result new, reasonably priced enlargers are not likely to appear.
One of the problems with the current situation is that availability is geographically inconsistent - and when it is hard to get something shipped, that means use is geographically inconsistent.
Another problem is that people who have unused equipment in storage are less likely to put them up for local sale on Craigslist or Facebook marketplace or other internet based media than younger, more internet focused people might be. That problem tends to resolve itself when there is a local community of users - if one becomes known as a darkroom fan, it is surprising how many people ask you about their unused stuff - but until you find such a community, it is difficult to benefit from it.
My biggest advice to people like @dcy is to look for local people who are interested. They may not all be as knowledgeable about technical stuff as some of us here, but they are likely to be considerably more knowledgeable about things like local sources for things and experiences.
If you haven't already done so, gravitate to the artists in your community. While someone you speak with may not be involved with photography themselves, they may very well know others who are, including sources for materials.
For example, if their are independent artist supply stores in your community, they may very well supply photographers - even if all they sell them is mats and frames. And they therefore may have people they can refer you to.
The same applies to learning institutions. Their art departments often have photographic contents. In addition, they may have photography technicians who will undoubtedly be working with digital, but that doesn't mean they aren't either interested in film for their own work, or formerly involved with film, or know of other contacts who can help.
And as you know, if you find some stuff locally you are considering, there are lots here that are happy to supply whatever advice we can through the internet.

 

[warden]

It's always worth attempting if you value the possible outcome more than you fear the risk to fail. If you would put just as much energy in finding ways to get there as in explaining why you don't, this discussion would have come to an end already.
You could have put your insecurity aside and make a start. Most of us probably had less help during their first steps than you have with forums and youtube-vids explaining every part and step.

But obviously you already decided otherwise which absolutely fine but it means there is no more reason for making us imagine ways to help you out.

+1

 

[koraks]

(1) you cannot expect people to show dedication and passion for an activity they've never tried,
(2) any newcomer is, by definition, someone who has not yet tried the activity, and
(3) newcomers are necessary for any hobby to have a future

I said it before - newcomers, if they're interested, can go to a nearby community darkroom, reach out for private individuals who print and want to show them around (virtually everyone will), they can follow a workshop. Lacking the real thing, they have countless hours of youtube vids to peruse to see if it grasps them. Plenty of us have gotten inspired without someone holding our hand and physically leading us to the row of print trays. Plenty of us read a book or magazine and were inspired, watched one of the plenty of videos and thought "I want to try that", etc.

Blaming lack of motivation is nonsensical if the conversation is about the future of the hobby

Lack of motivation is probably the main reason why any hobby goes away - although hobbies generally have a way of dying pretty hard.

Motivation is the magic spark that makes people turn off their phone, get out of the chair and get stuff done.

I know we're talking about barriers to entry. We're talking about the same thing. The main barrier I see is between people's ears. Harman could fold an enlarger and an engineer into every packet of printing paper so that the darkroom would materialize automagically when someone opens the box. Even then, people wouldn't print, for the most part.

I think one of the main issues is that we're collectively spoilt for choice, and much of that choice comes with the promise of low investment. We can spend all day posting TikTok vids of peeling potatoes and watering the plants (and getting 'likes' for it, too), buying new cryptocoins in the hopes of getting rich, spend (waste) countless hours watching insta vids on how to apply lipstick, etc. etc. Activities like darkroom printing require a lot more 'get up and go' than these 'passivities' - and people, by and large, turn out to be fairly lazy energy-efficient. We choose the path of the least resistance. Darkroom printing isn't that path. For those who have an interest in analog photography, the path of least resistance is to drop off the film at the lab, get some scans back and post those on IG. And there's nothing, absolutely nothing wrong with that in my book. But don't talk to be about 'barriers'. The barrier is for the most part a sheer lack of interest.

 

[loccdor]

Check out Austin as well..... worth the 600mi drive
There was a Beseler 23 C in what looked like beautiful condition for $85

Cool, I bought a Beseler 23C in California in 2013 for $50. Had to drive about 90 minutes to pick it up. $85 is still an extremely reasonable price.

The barrier is for the most part a sheer lack of interest.

Lack of interest is a big problem for me in many areas and subjects, photography is somehow one of the few where it's the opposite. For example, I have no desire to learn the first thing about insurance, it aggressively bores me. I've gathered a few facts on it only so catastrophic mis-steps aren't made.

Some people are my opposite - anything, no matter what it is, they're actively interested and absorbing everything like a sponge.

Coffee does help with attention deficits, to a point.

 

[koraks]

I have no desire to learn the first thing about insurance, it aggressively bores me

Don't get me started...there's so many things that actively repel me.
But I think darkroom printing is in a category for many people that they feel positive about initially, until they realize that it takes an effort to get going. I'd actually like to be able to dance the tango - but knowing what kind of practice is involved, I know I'm not going to muster up the discipline to do it. There's other things that come at a lower cost (time, energy, money) for me that I know I get a certain amount of satisfaction from, so those things I focus on instead. I suppose darkroom printing is like that for many. It's probably in the category "one day when I retire and have lots of time, I want to learn that, too." Whether that day ever comes, remains to be seen.

 

[brbo]

I am telling you that I think the biggest thread to the future of colour and B&W film in general, and darkroom printing in particular, is that for most potential newcomers, the only option seems to be to spend a significant amount of money to compete with an ever smaller pool or ever-aging decades old equipment.

A much bigger threat is that consumables for colour printing (chemicals and paper in particular) might be gone soon or become very expensive and no army of new expensive enlargers for people that think cheap old enlargers are not worth their trouble will help.

 

[jrhilton]

Not surprising they are focusing on Phoenix, as film sales overall fell 4% for them in 2024 (despite all the price increases). And the only area that grew was Phoenix. So they are just following the money.

The above stats / comments on demand are per their strategic report in the 2024 accounts that were submitted on 1 Oct 2025, before someone tries to say the above can’t be correct given all the ‘demand’ for film!

 

[thinkbrown]

Not surprising they are focusing on Phoenix, as film sales overall fell 4% for them in 2024 (despite all the price increases). And the only area that grew was Phoenix. So they are just following the money.

The above stats / comments on demand are per their strategic report in the 2024 accounts that were submitted on 1 Oct 2025, before someone tries to say the above can’t be correct given all the ‘demand’ for film!

Given the ~62% growth over the previous 5 years a 4% drop isn't dire, but it is a reversal. It was also accompanied by a drop in gross margin so their price raises haven't been keeping up with COGS. Hopefully this is just a short term drop caused by economic uncertainty and tariffs and not the beginning of a longer term trend.

Also interesting that they've lumped paper and chemical sales together now compared to previous years where they were listed separately.

 

[pentaxuser]

There's also El Paso nearby.

When I decide I want to invest in a new enlarger, I will definitely look in the local area first.

You could enter the town like the "wild young cowboy, dashing and daring", in the "Gunfighter Ballads" LP by Marty Robbins - just avoid Rosa's Cantina. Come to think of it there probably ísn't any enlargers there anyway- just heartache and death- a bit like setting up a darkroom, I suppose .

pentaxuser

 

[djdister]

The Camera and Darkroom shop in Albuquerque shows enlargers in two locations in their store - at the front window in the Google Street view photo plus up on a side wall in their own interior shot. Even if these images are years old, I'd bet some of the enlargers have not gone anywhere. At least one of them looks like an Omega D...

 

[GregY]

Always worth a phone call......

 

[MattKing]

There is a really good chance that if you go to that store, there will be a customer or staff member there that can help you, even if their current inventory and its prices don't meet your needs.
If it was local to me, there is a good chance you would find me around .......
I've worked in stores like that!

 

[Agulliver]

I said it before - newcomers, if they're interested, can go to a nearby community darkroom, reach out for private individuals who print and want to show them around (virtually everyone will), they can follow a workshop.

There isn't always a community darkroom nearby. As far as I can tell, after spending a good hour searching yesterday, the nearest ones to me are in the NE of London....OK I can get there in 90 minutes from my nearest station but that does mean 3 hours travelling each way. Which effectively means I'll spend an entire day out. And £25 or more to get there. I know I enjoy darkroom printing and have the basic skills because I've done it before. So that might be something I'll do. But a total newbie who's likely on a low income isn't going to spend the money on travel and darkroom rental + supplies, and a whole day out.

YouTube videos and instructionals can be great but they can't tell you if you're going to enjoy something. The local university here does do darkroom printing as part of it's arts courses but that means taking on a full time course, and unfortunately those not on the course cannot rent darkroom time.

Assuming I get my home darkroom up and running in 2026/7 I will be asking friends if they want to learn at least the basics - I am no expert and need to learn more myself but I can make decent prints when I try.

 

[slodat]

I just got back into film photography. Medium format in my case because I think it’s interesting and I could never possibly afford it as a teenager in the 80’s when I last shot film. I bought what looks to be a nice enlarger - Beseler 45V-XL with the motorized lift and focus. It didn’t come with negative carriers. I found another Beseler 45M that included the negative carriers. I ended up buying all their darkroom stuff. I had to drive about 500 miles round trip three different times to get it all. I’m not one that lets things like effort or miles stop me from getting what I want, when I’m able.

I’m excited to be getting into film. Beseler still sells their enlargers. They are somewhat expensive, but I spoke with them on the phone about some parts. They answered and were really helpful.

Just my .02..

 

[skahde]

In Germany Dunco, Kaiser and Kienzle are still in business, sided by Heiland for electronics. Prices have gone up with dwindeling demand though and some parts are made to order now.

 

[bfilm]

In Germany Dunco, Kaiser and Kienzle are still in business, sided by Heiland for electronics. Prices have gone up with dwindeling demand though and some parts are made to order now.

Good to learn Dunco are still offering their enlargers. Beseler and Dunco and Kaiser are nice, but I think Kienzle are the best available.