The Figure 8 Agitation Technique For Roll Film

[Andrew O'Neill]

I've been asked about this technique to agitate roll films, and to show an example. I don't know where I learnt it from, but it is a technique that I have used since I got into photography many years ago. There is nothing special about it, really... but here it is! Cheers!

 

[jay moussy]

Is the duration, or count, same as for a given inversion recipe?

(my poorly worded question, but you get the idea)

 

[faberryman]

A simple inversion works fine. Whoever taught you that obviously got bored in the darkroom one afternoon and started doing that to entertain himself. Nothing wrong with entertaining yourself when engaged in a mindless activity.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Yes, simple inversion works fine for some, but remember... it's a classroom of kids agitating their film tanks. I don't want chemicals everywhere and all over them... otherwise I'll have parents complaining, and program could get shut down.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Is the duration, or count, same as for a given inversion recipe?

(my poorly worded question, but you get the idea)

All I can tell you is that one figure 8 is 1 second.

 

[faberryman]

Yes, simple inversion works fine for some, but remember... it's a classroom of kids agitating their film tanks. I don't want chemicals everywhere and all over them... otherwise I'll have parents complaining, and program could get shut down.

I'd be more worried about trying to teach the kids figure 8 agitation,. I can only imagine the chaos.

 

[pentaxuser]

I'd be more worried about trying to teach the kids figure 8 agitation,. I can only imagine the chaos.

Maybe but I imagine that Andrew's kids are probably a bit older than kindergarten ones

pentaxuser

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I'd be more worried about trying to teach the kids figure 8 agitation,. I can only imagine the chaos.

Well, I've been in the classroom for decades, and I know how teens operate. You name it, I've seen it. Figure 8 is very easy to do. There is no spillage. For kids with small hands, they do their 8's on the table top. Now of course there is that silly little black twisty stick. The least spilly of all. The previous teacher had the kids use them... but those kids were spinning them like a roulette wheel! As soon as I took over the program, they disappeared...

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Maybe but I imagine that Andrew's kids are probably a bit older than kindergarten ones

pentaxuser

Oldest kid is 19. They held him back a year.

 

[faberryman]

Well, I've been in the classroom for decades, and I know how teens operate. You name it, I've seen it. Figure 8 is very easy to do. There is no spillage. For kids with small hands, they do their 8's on the table top. Now of course there is that silly little black twisty stick. The least spilly of all. The previous teacher had the kids use them... but those kids were spinning them like a roulette wheel! As soon as I took over the program, they disappeared...

You are probably right. Be sure to film your kids first efforts at doing figure 8 agitation and post it on TikTok with a link here.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

By the way, I taught pinhole (with pop cans) to 5 and 6 year olds in Japan. They were little angels. Well behaved, and displayed a better work ethic than many of my current flock of teens! They were able to gently agitate 4x5 trays of solutions... caffenol, dilute vinegar stop, and fix, with very little spillage.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

You are probably right. Be sure to film your kids doing figure 8 agitation and post it on TikTok with a link here.

I avoid Tik Tok

 

[Arvee]

Andrew: Have you seen any evidence of uneven development? I've been wanting to give figure 8 a try (because of my leaky Nikor tanks) but worry about uneven development.

And thanks for posting the video!

 

[BrianShaw]

The figure-8 agitation has worked well for me, also. No signs of uneven agitation.

When using Patterson tanks, I sometimes use the twizzle stick agitation. No unevenness with that technique either.

 

[Arvee]

Andrew: Have you seen any evidence of uneven development? I've been wanting to give figure 8 a try (because of my leaky Nikor tanks) but worry about uneven development.

The figure-8 agitation has worked well for me, also.

Brian, can I assume that 'well' means you haven't seen any evidence of uneven development?

 

[Arvee]

The figure-8 agitation has worked well for me, also. No signs of uneven agitation.

When using Patterson tanks, I sometimes use the twizzle stick agitation. No unevenness with that technique either.

Brian, thanks for the reply.

 

[BrianShaw]

Brian, can I assume that 'well' means you haven't seen any evidence of uneven development?

Correct… no uneven development.

 

[faberryman]

If you are worried about uneven development, might I suggest a paint can shaker? Honestly, three or four inversions every 30 seconds, or even every minute, and you are good to go. Developing film is not rocket science. Of course, Andrew is going to have to do figure 8 agitation because he has a bunch of kids with leaky tanks, and doesn't want to make a mess. For the times when I did not have a darkroom, I developed at the kitchen sink. If you hold the tank over the sink while agitating, if there are any leaks, the liquid goes down the drain. That works better than holding the tank over the floor when you are agitating. I have a darkroom now, so I just develop in the darkroom sink.

 

[MattKing]

Figure 8 Agitation is perfectly designed for Kodak Roll Film Apron tanks - the ones that you cannot invert.
In fact, IIRC, that is what is recommended in the instructions packaged with the tanks.

 

[awty]

You forgot the operators three claps, two complete turns and hip wiggle in between agitations.

 

[Philippe-Georges]

I have been doing this 8 shape mouvement for years and years, when mixing Sabayon with the egg whisk...

BTW, I agitate the roll film tank by systematically alternating between inverting (up-down) and rolling on the countertop (left-right), by doing so the liquid is moving crossways.

PS: Kindermann SS tanks don't leak...

 

[gone]

I use this method all the time. There were surge issues in the past when I was using straight agitation.

My Beseler tank doesn't leak either. Won't buy another Paterson, they all leaked.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Andrew: Have you seen any evidence of uneven development? I've been wanting to give figure 8 a try (because of my leaky Nikor tanks) but worry about uneven development.

And thanks for posting the video!

None whatsoever! I also have Nikkor tanks that leak like a sieve. Figure-8's are the best alternative when using it.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I use this method all the time. There were surge issues in the past when I was using straight agitation.

My Beseler tank doesn't leak either. Won't buy another Paterson, they all leaked.

In my opinion, the Patterson is terrible for leaking, when it's inverted. There are a couple of really old versions in my classroom with the screw on lid, that don't leak... but they are not daylight capable...which rules them out for classroom use.

 

[Anon Ymous]

In my opinion, the Patterson is terrible for leaking, when it's inverted...

I had the same opinion about them, but they're actually pretty good if you burp them. Very little to no leaking actually.

Of course, figure 8 ensures no leaking at all, so it's a no brainer in your case.