The expense of shooting film

[Huss]

Eastman Kodak in America manufacturers Kodak film and sells it to Kodak Alaris in Great Britain who resells the film to stores like B&H. So there are two markups. Kodak Aerocolor is not consumer film and I don;t believe is resold by Alaris. You;re comparing a film wih a particular use to normal consumer film used to shoot people, etc. Here's the description:
APPLICATIONS KODAK AEROCOLOR IV Negative Film 2460 is for general use in medium- to high-altitude aerial-mapping and aerial-reconnaissance photography. It is suited for geological, pollution, archeological, crop and forestry studies; traffic control; city planning; railway, highway, and hydraulic engineering; oceanography; and remote sensing, as well as other areas where photogrammetry is used. It is also well suited and recommended for use in digital film. https://www.kodak.com/content/produ...EROCOLOR-III-Negative-Film-2460-datasheet.pdf

In any case, it;s aerial film. Here's the secription of it in the reselling varieties.

Kodak Aerocolor IV Film Review

A fine-grained medium contrast colour-negative film with a clear base, available in 35mm only.

www.analog.cafe

I am currently using Aerocolor IV and like it much more than Colorplus 200.
Superb color, extremely fine grain, 40% cheaper than Colorplus!

 

[Huss]

FYI you can buy Aerocolor IV under the label Elektra 100, Luminar 100, and SantaColor 100. All are about $12/36exp

 

[BrianShaw]

That’s very impressive color, Huss. I hated ColorPlus when some was inadvertently shipped to me. It was artistic and not what I really wanted. Also like the BMW. We have several old ones in my neighborhood that I drool over. I talked to the guy with a derelict 2002 Tii and the first words he spoke was “it’s not for sale”. Then we had a nice chat about how he’ll probably never get around to restoring it. Too bad.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

FYI you can buy Aerocolor IV under the label Elektra 100, Luminar 100, and SantaColor 100. All are about $12/36exp

Portra (5) pack of 35mm/36 is $15.40 ($77 for the five) or $3.40 more each roll, about a quarter more from B&H. Ektar 100 in single sale is $16 for a roll of 36. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/759457-USA/Kodak_6031959_35mm_Professional_Portra_NC.html

Kodak Professional Ektar 100 Color Negative Film (35mm Roll Film, 36 Exposures)

Buy Kodak Professional Ektar 100 Color Negative Film (35mm Roll Film, 36 Exposures) featuring Daylight-Balanced Color Negative Film, ISO 100/21° in C-41 Process, Extremely Fine Grain Structure, Vivid Color Saturation, High Sharpness, T-GRAIN Emulsion, Ideal for Scanning. Review Kodak Ektar 100

www.bhphotovideo.com

People have to decide whether they want Portra or Ektar rolled by Kodak or another rolled brand for a little less. The point is there's not a huge difference in price for the big difference in product quality and characteristics.

 

[Agulliver]

$17 in most places including:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1476366-REG/kodak_603147_color_print_film_200_36.html?ap=y&smp=y&srsltid=Ad5pg_GwuDxffS0TmCPLjqHJo0R3VaG7R2a1EcOvYVaxbky4oXOTdCah6R8

And this is why I feel we are getting gouged by Kodak:

Popho Luminar 100 Color Negative Film, 35mm, 36exp.

Popho Luminar 100 is a new ISO 100 speed daylight-balanced color negative film stock is a respooled Kodak Aerocolor IV 2460 color negative aerial photography film*. The film offers medium saturation and contrast and is well-suited for landscape and other general photographic applications. This...

popho.ca

$11.38 for FRESH, respooled Kodak Aerocolor IV. These companies buy this film from Kodak - so basically are middlemen - and can sell it at a profit for 40% less than what Kodak via its resellers (who are just putting it on the shelf) are selling ColorPlus.

When my local brick & mortar shop, a small business without any buying power, got their most recent Color Plus in stock in January 2023 they were selling at £10 per film, which is the highest I've ever seen it here in the UK actually in stock anywhere.

I know it's currently out of stock but AW have it at £8.50 for 24 exp, £10 for 36.
Ag Photo are listing it at £6.99
Boots at £9
Process Supplies £6
Bristol Cameras £9

I know they're not all currently in stock but it sounds more like B&H are gouging than Kodak.

And those prices include 20% VAT

 

[Huss]

That’s very impressive color, Huss. I hated ColorPlus when some was inadvertently shipped to me. It was artistic and not what I really wanted. Also like the BMW. We have several old ones in my neighborhood that I drool over. I talked to the guy with a derelict 2002 Tii and the first words he spoke was “it’s not for sale”. Then we had a nice chat about how he’ll probably never get around to restoring it. Too bad.

Was the Tii at least running?

I had a 1988 318i, which in essence was a 'modern' Tii. Small 4 cylinder motor, manual transmission (of course), vinyl seats (which actually was great w my dogs as they just wiped clean), manual sun roof. Not much power, but light weight and everything was perfectly balanced - the steering/clutch/gear matched perfectly. Lively rear axle..

 

[Huss]

When my local brick & mortar shop, a small business without any buying power, got their most recent Color Plus in stock in January 2023 they were selling at £10 per film, which is the highest I've ever seen it here in the UK actually in stock anywhere.

I know it's currently out of stock but AW have it at £8.50 for 24 exp, £10 for 36.
Ag Photo are listing it at £6.99
Boots at £9
Process Supplies £6
Bristol Cameras £9

I know they're not all currently in stock but it sounds more like B&H are gouging than Kodak.

And those prices include 20% VAT

The prices only count when stuff is in stock... Lots of places here show old prices for out of stock film, but when the film is back in stock - hoo boy has the price shot up!

 

[madNbad]

Was the Tii at least running?

I had a 1988 318i, which in essence was a 'modern' Tii. Small 4 cylinder motor, manual transmission (of course), vinyl seats (which actually was great w my dogs as they just wiped clean), manual sun roof. Not much power, but light weight and everything was perfectly balanced - the steering/clutch/gear matched perfectly. Lively rear axle..

In the fall of 1967, my oldest brother, always an early adopter, came home with a boxy little silver car with a lot of glass. Nobody had seen one but within a year, everyone wanted one.

 

[Huss]

Portra (5) pack of 35mm/36 is $15.40 ($77 for the five) or $3.40 more each roll, about a quarter more from B&H. Ektar 100 in single sale is $16 for a roll of 36. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/759457-USA/Kodak_6031959_35mm_Professional_Portra_NC.html

Kodak Professional Ektar 100 Color Negative Film (35mm Roll Film, 36 Exposures)

Buy Kodak Professional Ektar 100 Color Negative Film (35mm Roll Film, 36 Exposures) featuring Daylight-Balanced Color Negative Film, ISO 100/21° in C-41 Process, Extremely Fine Grain Structure, Vivid Color Saturation, High Sharpness, T-GRAIN Emulsion, Ideal for Scanning. Review Kodak Ektar 100

www.bhphotovideo.com

People have to decide whether they want Portra or Ektar rolled by Kodak or another rolled brand for a little less. The point is there's not a huge difference in price for the big difference in product quality and characteristics.

$3.40/roll is a big difference. And product quality? Well, what is the definition of quality? All these films are made by Kodak so the mfg quality is the same. It then depends on the look that you want. I personally do not much care for Ektar, but I do like Portra. And I really like Aerocolor IV - I love the fine grain and the way it really makes reds pop

And getting colors like this? I've already decided to pick Aerocolor over Portra!



The $3.40 savings is a bonus.

 

[Oldwino]

Somebody just needs to get us some Aerocolor in 120.

 

[MattKing]

All these films are made by Kodak so the mfg quality is the same.

With all due respect, the confectioning/finishing is a large contributor to the quality of the end product. The Shanghai 220 films provide evidence of how important that can be.
None of those other versions and suppliers are providing film that is "made by Kodak". They are taking Kodak made special purpose film stocks, converting them into different forms, and selling a different product.
Do the films have frame numbers? How is the anti-halation performance? How consistent is the roll length and space between the first frame and the light-struck parts of the leader? Are their any signs of dust, dirt or scratches? How consistent and durable and light-tight are the cannisters?
With the exception of the anti-halation, Kodak has no role in respect to those quality indicators.

 

[Don_ih]

Do the films have frame numbers?

If they could lower the price of film by not marking frame numbers, I'm pretty sure everyone would shout "Go for it!"

 

[Alan Johnson]

The situation mentioned by Huss is similar in the UK.
Color Plus 36 in stock is listed ~£18 [~ $21.5]
Flic Electra 100 is listed at ~£12 [ ~$14.5]

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

The prices only count when stuff is in stock... Lots of places here show old prices for out of stock film, but when the film is back in stock - hoo boy has the price shot up!

Reminds me of an old joke slightly modified for this forum:

So the photo bug goes to the film store to buy a roll of Ektachrome 100 and asks "How much is it?"

The dealer responds, “Well, it’s $15 a roll but we’re all out right now. It’s back ordered.”

So the photo bug leaves the store and goes to another store down the block.

“How much is a roll of Ektachrome and do you have any?”

The second dealer responds, “Oh, it’s $20 a roll and we have loads.”

“$20?” complains the photo bug raising his voice. “The other dealer only charges $15 a roll.”

“Well,” says the second dealer. “When we’re out of Ektachrome, we only charge $10 a roll.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

$3.40/roll is a big difference. And product quality? Well, what is the definition of quality? All these films are made by Kodak so the mfg quality is the same. It then depends on the look that you want. I personally do not much care for Ektar, but I do like Portra. And I really like Aerocolor IV - I love the fine grain and the way it really makes reds pop

And getting colors like this? I've already decided to pick Aerocolor over Portra!



The $3.40 savings is a bonus.

$3.40 can be a lot of money and it adds up if you shoot a lot. But for me, for one thing, I don't shoot much.


The other issues, for me, are that it's not just the cost of film. I spend $3-$4 for a gallon of gas, I could be out driving all day getting shots, or in a place I'm not returning too or with lighting that won't repeat itself. I have one chance to get it right. How much is that worth? If I shoot for example expired film or an off brand, will the results be worth it because these other things add to the cost. What about the processing fees or chemical cost if you do develop yourself? If the pictures don't come out right, you've lost not only the cost of the film, but these other expenses, as well as your time. Reliability and consistency are important?

By the way, that's a nice shot. The colors are very quiet and warm.

 

[BMbikerider]

Kodak Alaris' business office operations with respect to film in North America are operated from Rochester New York.
Kodak Alaris does not sell to retailers.

I am not exactly certain of the full involvement Alaris has with the remaining parts of the old Kodak company in America. However I do believe (I was told by a previous employee) That Alaris was founded after the company in Hemel Hempstead in England folded and was based or owned by the pensions side of the company that still survived. I have looked at the outside of the current Alaris HQ curtesy of Google Street-view and it just looks like any other multi-storey office building without a factory anywhere insight. In fact on the remaining commercial site areas around it, there appears to be very little. (The images on Street-view can be old and there is no telling when they were recorded.)

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I am not exactly certain of the full involvement Alaris has with the remaining parts of the old Kodak company in America. However I do believe (I was told by a previous employee) That Alaris was founded after the company in Hemel Hempstead in England folded and was based or owned by the pensions side of the company that still survived. I have looked at the outside of the current Alaris HQ curtesy of Google Street-view and it just looks like any other multi-storey office building without a factory anywhere insight. In fact on the remaining commercial site areas around it, there appears to be very little. (The images on Street-view can be old and there is no telling when they were recorded.)

Alaris in Rochester has a number of locations. Here's one in a big box building that appears to be a warehouse as well as offices. Maybe they accept deliveries from Eastman Kodak factory nearby and then redistribute.

Kodak Alaris · 9952 Eastman Park Dr, Windsor, CO 80550

★★★★★ · Business center

www.google.com

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Eastman Kodak is in the same complex as Kodak Alaris.

Eastman Kodak Co to Kodak Alaris

www.google.com

 

[koraks]

Reminds me of an old joke slightly modified for this forum:

Yeah, I knew you were going to bring that one up at some point

 

[MattKing]

I am not exactly certain of the full involvement Alaris has with the remaining parts of the old Kodak company in America. However I do believe (I was told by a previous employee) That Alaris was founded after the company in Hemel Hempstead in England folded and was based or owned by the pensions side of the company that still survived. I have looked at the outside of the current Alaris HQ curtesy of Google Street-view and it just looks like any other multi-storey office building without a factory anywhere insight. In fact on the remaining commercial site areas around it, there appears to be very little. (The images on Street-view can be old and there is no telling when they were recorded.)

Kodak Alaris has two parts.
One part is actively growing the business document scanning and handling business that they received as part of the bankruptcy settlement. It is now operated separately under the name "Alaris".
The remaining business is the worldwide marketing and distribution business for Kodak branded films.
When Eastman Kodak went bankrupt, most of the employees worked in that marketing and distribution part of the business - either directly for Eastman Kodak, or for the remaining international subsidiaries. At that time, most of the remaining manufacturing capabilities were at Eastman Kodak's site in Rochester. The main exceptions related to the production of colour paper, and some ancillary production and warehousing facilities in leased premises (mainly) worldwide.
As a part of the bankruptcy settlement, the Kodak Limited/UK pension plan got most/all of those ancillary sites, as well as all the worldwide marketing and distribution business in Kodak branded still film, paper and photochemicals. They transferred all those interests to a new company owned and operated by the Kodak Limited/UK pension plan: Kodak Alaris.
Kodak Alaris subsequently sold off the sites and production capabilities. They also sold off the paper and photochemical businesses. They retain the worldwide marketing and distribution business for Kodak still film.
The reason it all worked for Eastman Kodak is that the bankruptcy settlement relieved them of most of their costs. They remain as a smallish manufacturing entity, with almost no marketing and distribution costs, save for the business they did retain - motion picture film and related photochemistry.

 

[MattKing]

Eastman Kodak is in the same complex as Kodak Alaris.

Eastman Kodak Co to Kodak Alaris

www.google.com

The US office of Kodak Alaris, where much of their worldwide business is coordinated through.

 

[BMbikerider]

Kodak Alaris has two parts.
One part is actively growing the business document scanning and handling business that they received as part of the bankruptcy settlement. It is now operated separately under the name "Alaris".
The remaining business is the worldwide marketing and distribution business for Kodak branded films.
When Eastman Kodak went bankrupt, most of the employees worked in that marketing and distribution part of the business - either directly for Eastman Kodak, or for the remaining international subsidiaries. At that time, most of the remaining manufacturing capabilities were at Eastman Kodak's site in Rochester. The main exceptions related to the production of colour paper, and some ancillary production and warehousing facilities in leased premises (mainly) worldwide.
As a part of the bankruptcy settlement, the Kodak Limited/UK pension plan got most/all of those ancillary sites, as well as all the worldwide marketing and distribution business in Kodak branded still film, paper and photochemicals. They transferred all those interests to a new company owned and operated by the Kodak Limited/UK pension plan: Kodak Alaris.
Kodak Alaris subsequently sold off the sites and production capabilities. They also sold off the paper and photochemical businesses. They retain the worldwide marketing and distribution business for Kodak still film.
The reason it all worked for Eastman Kodak is that the bankruptcy settlement relieved them of most of their costs. They remain as a smallish manufacturing entity, with almost no marketing and distribution costs, save for the business they did retain - motion picture film and related photochemistry.

In other words with regard to their RA4 developers and RA4 paper and C41 we are still largely stuffed!

 

[Sirius Glass]

In other words with regard to their RA4 developers and RA4 paper and C41 we are still largely stuffed!

As in a turkey or a goose OR in the Australian meaning?

 

[MattKing]

In other words with regard to their RA4 developers and RA4 paper and C41 we are still largely stuffed!

Those businesses have been owned by Sino Promise since 2020. Sino Promise or entities associated with them were doing much of the manufacturing for them before then. Sino Promise was also the largest single local distributor of Kodak branded products bought from Kodak Alaris before 2020.
And Sino Promise has been decimated by the market effects of Covid 19.

 

[Arthurwg]

I only shoot B&W film and use a darkroom. But my partner, who also shoots film, scans everything and files it all meticulously. She has a dedicated computer, a high-end monitor and several external hard drives. She also has the use of an Imacon scanner. No small expense involved in all this.