The expense of shooting film

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TJones

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@TJones kindly refrain from further 'fanboys' comments, especially aimed at other participants in discussions here. Discuss respectfully.
I will do so, thanks. I should have limited my comment to pointing out the dichotomy between the data-driven quality/reliability ratings (near the bottom) vs. the customer satisfaction ratings (near the top).
 

warden

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I guess that’s true. Myself, I love big prints in spacious exhibitions, and I am unfailingly impressed by this kind of thing (website says Leica 35mm, Tri-X).

How on earth is that much detail available on 35mm Tri-X!? Amazing. It looks like medium format or larger from here, but perhaps in person the effect is different. I love those big prints too, especially analog.
 

snusmumriken

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It is impressive, but does being able to print it at 40x60 inches make it a better photograph?

No, no, of course not. But it is a great portrait (would you not agree?) and if one can appreciate it big in the right setting, that’s amazing. I hate going to an exhibition and finding 10x8 prints that require me to get to book-reading distance to view them. Tones really open out in a big print.
 
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Huss

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"Hate change"? LOL. As soon as the supply of EVs catches up with demand, I'll be buying one. Unfortunately, Teslas run into the same manufacturing issues that other cars do, with the added bonus of software that isn't nearly as capable as advertised. When the person in charge tells the engineers to enable full self-driving, while at the same time cutting costs by removing the radar sensors that make it possible, I'll look elsewhere. But thanks for your fanboy anecdote.

I know this is going off topic, but the thing about Tesla is they were the ones that actually brought change. All the other mfgs could have done this years ago. Heck, milk was delivered in electric 'vans' in England over 60 years ago! But none of the car mfgs cared to bring us EVs the way Tesla did because, frankly, they couldn't care less and liked the fact that they tied you to their franchised dealerships for parts, oil changes etc etc.
And it's not only the car side. Tesla built up, by themselves, the now massive SuperCharger network. They built the infrastructure to make this possible! What was Mercedes/BMW/VW/Ford/GM/Fiat etc doing? Nothing.
 
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Huss

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Where the hell are you buying Color Plus for $17 ?
$17 in most places including:


And this is why I feel we are getting gouged by Kodak:


$11.38 for FRESH, respooled Kodak Aerocolor IV. These companies buy this film from Kodak - so basically are middlemen - and can sell it at a profit for 40% less than what Kodak via its resellers (who are just putting it on the shelf) are selling ColorPlus.
 
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I won’t worry about the electronics on my 8-year old Canon digital camera failing until the electronics on my 45-year old Canon A series camera fail. And even at the unrealistic prices you quote, a battery that’s good for tens of thousands of exposures costs no more than a few rolls of film plus processing.

Teslas are for Musk fanboys, not for people who want a car they can trust. But a well-built electric vehicle, with hundreds fewer moving parts, should be at least as reliable as your ICE car.

The problem is the battery fades and then has to be replaced at roughly ten years. So what does that do to the resale value of the car? Of course, by then, batteries might be cheap.
 

Anon Ymous

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$17 in most places including:


And this is why I feel we are getting gouged by Kodak:


$11.38 for FRESH, respooled Kodak Aerocolor IV. These companies buy this film from Kodak - so basically are middlemen - and can sell it at a profit for 40% less than what Kodak via its resellers (who are just putting it on the shelf) are selling ColorPlus.

Oh boy, I used to buy ColorPlus 200 for 2,5€ back in 2018...
 
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I suggest it’s more to do with expectation than attitude. The quality that’s acceptable in a budget movie is rather less than you’d expect for a 20x16 still print hung on the wall.

That’s not to deny that smartphones are remarkable, especially in eliminating focus and exposure errors and camera shake, and dealing with colour balance. With all that help one should be able to get a decent shot, but there are still plenty of limitations.

I shot this slide show with video clips with a Samsung S7 in 1080, hand held. I forgot my camera when we visited the fire academy so the cellphone was all I had. Definitely a tripod would have helped but IU didn;t have that either. It looks gret on a 75" TV so the cellphone doesn;t limit it. If you can, check it on your TV to see what I mean or a large monitor looks even better and sharper.


 
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I don't think anybody said anything about "better." However, IMO in many cases an image works especially well when it's printed very large....even mural size.

I agree. Photos always look better the larger they are.
 

BMbikerider

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"Hate change"? LOL. As soon as the supply of EVs catches up with demand, I'll be buying one. Unfortunately, Teslas run into the same manufacturing issues that other cars do, with the added bonus of software that isn't nearly as capable as advertised. When the person in charge tells the engineers to enable full self-driving, while at the same time cutting costs by removing the radar sensors that make it possible, I'll look elsewhere. But thanks for your fanboy anecdote.

If they ever do enable self driving heaven help us. Going by the standard of the prototypes and the abysmal failures I hope that never happens. Why has everything to be automatic. if it gets to that degree we may all as well wrap ourselves in greaseproof paper and mark it as Full Fat Human Lard!
 

DREW WILEY

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35mm Triassic-X blown up to 40X60 inches? - is all that buckshot look due to the film grain itself, or the fact I'd rather take a real shotgun to that kind of thing rather than keep staring at it. Don't get offended. I have the same attitude toward expensive big screen TV's. Ain't much on TV worth seeing big, or seeing at all.
 
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I know this is going off topic, but the thing about Tesla is they were the ones that actually brought change. All the other mfgs could have done this years ago. Heck, milk was delivered in electric 'vans' in England over 60 years ago! But none of the car mfgs cared to bring us EVs the way Tesla did because, frankly, they couldn't care less and liked the fact that they tied you to their franchised dealerships for parts, oil changes etc etc.
And it's not only the car side. Tesla built up, by themselves, the now massive SuperCharger network. They built the infrastructure to make this possible! What was Mercedes/BMW/VW/Ford/GM/Fiat etc doing? Nothing.

Tax incentives paid for by American taxpayers helped finance much of Tesla's rise. Now if we could only get Congress to pass a tax rebate for film purchases. We could use the argument that it will help the environment by getting rid of all those filthy and useless 1 and 0 bits filling up the universe. :wink:
 

cmacd123

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The expense of shooting film​

The difference is that films are objects. You have something you can touch. Work on it is payed, the object is still there. The original camera negative of a major film production, say of 100 minutes run time, is not less than 9,000 feet of stock, net. About 20 kilogram, five cans, cores, tape, bags.

don't forget the other 5 cans of sound negative, in their cans.
 
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$17 in most places including:


And this is why I feel we are getting gouged by Kodak:


$11.38 for FRESH, respooled Kodak Aerocolor IV. These companies buy this film from Kodak - so basically are middlemen - and can sell it at a profit for 40% less than what Kodak via its resellers (who are just putting it on the shelf) are selling ColorPlus.

Eastman Kodak in America manufacturers Kodak film and sells it to Kodak Alaris in Great Britain who resells the film to stores like B&H. So there are two markups. Kodak Aerocolor is not consumer film and I don;t believe is resold by Alaris. You;re comparing a film wih a particular use to normal consumer film used to shoot people, etc. Here's the description:
APPLICATIONS KODAK AEROCOLOR IV Negative Film 2460 is for general use in medium- to high-altitude aerial-mapping and aerial-reconnaissance photography. It is suited for geological, pollution, archeological, crop and forestry studies; traffic control; city planning; railway, highway, and hydraulic engineering; oceanography; and remote sensing, as well as other areas where photogrammetry is used. It is also well suited and recommended for use in digital film. https://www.kodak.com/content/produ...EROCOLOR-III-Negative-Film-2460-datasheet.pdf

In any case, it;s aerial film. Here's the secription of it in the reselling varieties.
 

MattKing

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Avoid politics folks.
Particularly with respect to the entirely off topic subject of automobiles, where the interweaving of political and economic issues is so labyrinthian as to make some of the threads and posts here on advanced chemistry or sensitometry look like grade one lessons!
 

MattKing

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Eastman Kodak in America manufacturers Kodak film and sells it to Kodak Alaris in Great Britain who resells the film to stores like B&H. So there are two markups. Kodak Aerocolor is not consumer film and I don;t believe is resold by Alaris. You;re comparing a film wih a particular use to normal consumer film used to shoot people, etc. Here's the description:
APPLICATIONS KODAK AEROCOLOR IV Negative Film 2460 is for general use in medium- to high-altitude aerial-mapping and aerial-reconnaissance photography. It is suited for geological, pollution, archeological, crop and forestry studies; traffic control; city planning; railway, highway, and hydraulic engineering; oceanography; and remote sensing, as well as other areas where photogrammetry is used. It is also well suited and recommended for use in digital film. https://www.kodak.com/content/produ...EROCOLOR-III-Negative-Film-2460-datasheet.pdf

In any case, it;s aerial film. Here's the secription of it in the reselling varieties.

Kodak Alaris' business office operations with respect to film in North America are operated from Rochester New York.
Kodak Alaris does not sell to retailers.
 

BrianShaw

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… help the environment by getting rid of all those filthy and useless 1 and 0 bits filling up the universe. :wink:

That job is half done already… the zeros are, by definition, nothing at all. Let’s focus on getting rid of the useless ones :smile:
 
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That job is half done already… the zeros are, by definition, nothing at all. Let’s focus on getting rid of the useless ones :smile:

Yes. You have to empty the bit bucket on a regular basis.
 

VinceInMT

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If they ever do enable self driving heaven help us. Going by the standard of the prototypes and the abysmal failures I hope that never happens. Why has everything to be automatic. if it gets to that degree we may all as well wrap ourselves in greaseproof paper and mark it as Full Fat Human Lard!

I understand what you are saying and agree in certain areas but, based on the drivers where I live, automation can’t be worse than them.

BTW, about 4 years ago, I got a VIP tour of downtown Pittsburgh, PA in a self-driving car. There were two humans up front, one as a back-up driver and one with a laptop collecting data from the LIDAR and such. It was amazing watching how the car negotiated the street system there that is narrow, hilly, and has lots of obstacles. See how it handled a left-hand turn in an uncontrolled intersection with oncoming traffic was enlightening. (Full disclosure, both of my kids have worked for that company and one still does.)
 
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