One definition of a boat: a hole in the water that you throw you money in.
The expense of shooting film
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Thinking of boats, my parents looked at buying a sailing cruiser in the early 90s. Buying the boat wasn't an issue as such, a decent 30 foot second hand one could be had for a similar amount to a car. But mooring fees would have been several thousand per year. Even back then.
Regarding film, it was artificially cheap 20 or so years ago. Over production lead to some amazing bargains, along with the Eastern European factories like Forte and Efke churning out film onto the market almost for pennies. That's all gone. We're back to the 70s now in terms of costs, and it's not going to get cheaper. Every one of us must decide if our hobbies and interests are worth it. And adjust accordingly if basics such as bills or food are a difficulty.
I'm probably lucky in that I've never used a commercial lab for B&W developing, always done it myself apart from the very first roll of FP4 that I shot in 1978. That really cuts down on costs a lot. I probably still shoot in the region of 80 B&W rolls every year along with the occasional glass plate. I bulk roll almost all of my B&W so that shaves a bit of money off the cost (Ilford HP5+, Fomapan in various flavours). I also look for deals, for example sometimes I can pick up a brick of short dated 120 films - last year I got two bricks of Fomapan 400 that I am still working through. For colour film I just look for deals, I was lucky enough to take a trip to America last October and pick up a lot of Fuji Superia 400 from Wal-Mart stores at half the price it is here. I am fortunate in that I have a lab in my town which does C41 cheaper than I can reasonably do it myself at home.
But it ain't getting cheaper. I have had to figure out how to cut pennies here and there. I'm in no danger of being unable to pay bills but perhaps I spend less on other hobbies. I'm not buying physical books much, and am being careful with the vinyl records. I haven't bought any "new to me" cameras in 2023 so far!
Count me as one of the film shooters who also has a DSLR (Nikon D7200) and a half decent compact digital camera. though I definitely shoot more photos on film. The D7200 was bought second hand with under 100 on the shutter count for less than half price. And I can use lenses on it that I also use on my F601M and the wife's F50 (not that she's used it in years).
Regarding film, it was artificially cheap 20 or so years ago. Over production lead to some amazing bargains, along with the Eastern European factories like Forte and Efke churning out film onto the market almost for pennies. That's all gone. We're back to the 70s now in terms of costs, and it's not going to get cheaper. Every one of us must decide if our hobbies and interests are worth it. And adjust accordingly if basics such as bills or food are a difficulty.
I'm probably lucky in that I've never used a commercial lab for B&W developing, always done it myself apart from the very first roll of FP4 that I shot in 1978. That really cuts down on costs a lot. I probably still shoot in the region of 80 B&W rolls every year along with the occasional glass plate. I bulk roll almost all of my B&W so that shaves a bit of money off the cost (Ilford HP5+, Fomapan in various flavours). I also look for deals, for example sometimes I can pick up a brick of short dated 120 films - last year I got two bricks of Fomapan 400 that I am still working through. For colour film I just look for deals, I was lucky enough to take a trip to America last October and pick up a lot of Fuji Superia 400 from Wal-Mart stores at half the price it is here. I am fortunate in that I have a lab in my town which does C41 cheaper than I can reasonably do it myself at home.
But it ain't getting cheaper. I have had to figure out how to cut pennies here and there. I'm in no danger of being unable to pay bills but perhaps I spend less on other hobbies. I'm not buying physical books much, and am being careful with the vinyl records. I haven't bought any "new to me" cameras in 2023 so far!
Count me as one of the film shooters who also has a DSLR (Nikon D7200) and a half decent compact digital camera. though I definitely shoot more photos on film. The D7200 was bought second hand with under 100 on the shutter count for less than half price. And I can use lenses on it that I also use on my F601M and the wife's F50 (not that she's used it in years).
Well, if you're able to make my tax return this year go from 1635$ to 5200$, I'll take your math any time !
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Ditto. Even a smallish 100 ft boat means hiring a captain to drive the boat, and perhaps a pretty little thing in a short skirt to serve cocktails. Maintenance for a boat is estimated at 1/4 the purchase cost of the boat (after all they sit in corrosive salt water).
Most artistic endeavors cost money. My wife always told me that I pay three or four hundred $ for a piece of marble only to chip it away!
My friend seems to upgrade his digital cameras every year or so. I figure that I would not be spending that kind of money feeding my Hassy for the remainder of my life.
Choosing hobbies, whatever they are, and allocating costs is the decision we make.
I shoot a lot of film, but do not eat out much, do not smoke, and maybe go to my local dive bar for one beer once a week.
One pint of Hazy Ale is $9, which is more than one roll of the films I most often use. I‘m anti-social so I’m not buying drinks for anyone else there either. That helps..
I shoot a lot of film, but do not eat out much, do not smoke, and maybe go to my local dive bar for one beer once a week.
One pint of Hazy Ale is $9, which is more than one roll of the films I most often use. I‘m anti-social so I’m not buying drinks for anyone else there either. That helps..
It used to be that we paid for the 'expense of film' (and processing) over the years, after we purchased the camera.guangong said:
Today, we pay immediately for all the shots we will ever take with that camera, the day we purchase the camera, and 'all the shots are free' after that.
A medium cost film camera body in 1965 cost about the equivalent of 44 hours of US median salary ($269 camera, $6 per hour) vs. today 75 hours of US median salary ($2500 camera, $33 per hour).
IOW we now prepay for cost equivalent to 31 hours at $33/hour...over $1000 toward film and processing.
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'Sailboat racing' is like standing in a cold shower while tearing up $20 bills constantly.
That is if one can find a boat slip on the west coast. That has been a problem for over half a century.
Since you develop your own black & white film you know that the cost of stop bath with indicator and PhotoFlo are just so damned expensive!
Anybody check the price of Velvia or Provia 8x10 film recently?
Velvia 50 is longer available. I have two boxes of it (4x5) frozen in the freezer.
Going to the movies once a week with your wife costs around $30-40 or $1500-2000 a year what with popcorn and soda. Enjoy yourself with film photography. Life's short.
In the strict terms of digital( pics taken "electronically") photography it surely is the case that for maybe X%( you define what X is) it is free, isn't it?
It is taken on an i phone which most regards as a necessity anyway so no additional expense and the pics are exchanged electronically and instantly rather than the old fashioned way of showing prints to friends when meeting them. The pics are retrievable at any time by whomsoever you have sent them to , making it much more convenient than it used to be, should they ever want to see the pics again
pentaxuser
It is taken on an i phone which most regards as a necessity anyway so no additional expense and the pics are exchanged electronically and instantly rather than the old fashioned way of showing prints to friends when meeting them. The pics are retrievable at any time by whomsoever you have sent them to , making it much more convenient than it used to be, should they ever want to see the pics again
pentaxuser
That is a prolific use of film! Apologies if I'm the only one who doesn't know, but do you have a website somewhere?
A rule I learned from owning classic cars that applies to film usage as well - never add up the receipts
I’m married to an accountant and she does exactly that. She runs the money side of household like business and every cent gets tracked. At the end of the year we have a “family financial meeting” and she can show me how much each of my hobbies, of which I have many, have cost during the previous year. It depends on what I’ve devoted my time too but photography rarely has numbers like my vintage foreign cars, motorcycling, vintage audio gear, woodworking, and travel.
My only question after she lays this all out is “Do have have to get us retired and go back to work?” So far, I don’t have to.
BTW, I have friends who are into snow skiing, something I’ve never tried, and the cost of equipment, lift passes, and transportation to the slopes is really something. They like to splurge and go over to Big Sky (Montana) where it’s something like $300/day. Yikes!!!
Choosing hobbies, whatever they are, and allocating costs is the decision we make.
I shoot a lot of film, but do not eat out much, do not smoke, and maybe go to my local dive bar for one beer once a week.
One pint of Hazy Ale is $9, which is more than one roll of the films I most often use. I‘m anti-social so I’m not buying drinks for anyone else there either. That helps..
This is so true: it’s about choices. While I have quite a few hobbies, there are some I’ve always wanted to get into but the opportunity cost was too great. For example, I was really considering flying lessons a while back but I also wanted to cash flow two kids through college. Now the flying bug has abated.
Hey, stop by and I’ll buy you a nice craft beer here. They are still $4.
I’ve heard that about boating, however, my father-in-law gave us the sailboat that my wife had as a kid. Its 14’ 1963 Grumman Multi-purpose boat. It has a mast with a single sail, lee-boards, etc. and also oars and oar locks. Registration here on it and the trailer is permanent so no ongoing costs. I keep it next to the garage at my rental property across the street so no storage fees (in fact, I guess the tenant is paying for it). We have a small lake nearby and we used it a lot when the kids were young. I get it out now and then and get some looks when I tow it with my ‘65 Triumph TR4. So, it’s one boat story that isn’t a money pit.
Thanks!
You betcha!
Horridly so!
And now, the natural gas consumed to heat chemicals is making it look desireable to process at 60F
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Ocean racing 30' sailboat does seems like standing in cold shower while tearing up $20 bills...damage caused by high stress to parts, dealing with salt water assault on materials, the periodic need to replace sails and other things...etc. Wildly fun yet costly recreation.
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They say the second best day of boat ownership is the day you buy the boat, the best day is the day you sell the boat. The few people who I've known that have owned boats makes me believe that is true.
Try owning an airplane.
No-one is saying that film photography ranks anywhere near top of the league in terms of expense - at least I don't think so but isn't it true that the cost of film in recent times has changed the cost of film v digital argument in recent times in digital's favour?
Certainly a person who has yet to decide which of the two he wishes to pursue is likely to try and weigh up the relative costs and the trend in film prices and more specifically colour film, does not work in favour of film
It may well be that in the short term the desire to try what is seen by newcomers as "the wonder of old technology" overcomes the cost argument but longer term if the current trend continues, costs are likely to loom large enough that it will almost certainly enter the equation
Yes, go back far enough and film photography was expensive enough that most users had to be content with a film or two per holiday and on high days as the saying goes but it didn't matter because if you wanted memories then film was the only "game in town" so film sold in millions or tens of millions but that is no longer the case and never will be again
Maybe or more probably is the phrase I should use, the film companies are more than aware of this and can do nothing about the costs of production, distribution etc
We pay up or they shut up as in "shut up shop" may be the stark reality but if it is, I just fear that if nothing can be done then growing the market as a way of reducing costs becomes a mountain to climb that may prove too much.
Of course there will always be those who will always choose to shoot film and I will probably be one of them but if a "niche" product becomes niche enough and this affects costs even more adversely then there comes a point at which even the likes of consumers such as we have on Photrio are not enough to sustain the industry
Film's future may not be anything like as bright as we want to believe it is
pentaxuser
Certainly a person who has yet to decide which of the two he wishes to pursue is likely to try and weigh up the relative costs and the trend in film prices and more specifically colour film, does not work in favour of film
It may well be that in the short term the desire to try what is seen by newcomers as "the wonder of old technology" overcomes the cost argument but longer term if the current trend continues, costs are likely to loom large enough that it will almost certainly enter the equation
Yes, go back far enough and film photography was expensive enough that most users had to be content with a film or two per holiday and on high days as the saying goes but it didn't matter because if you wanted memories then film was the only "game in town" so film sold in millions or tens of millions but that is no longer the case and never will be again
Maybe or more probably is the phrase I should use, the film companies are more than aware of this and can do nothing about the costs of production, distribution etc
We pay up or they shut up as in "shut up shop" may be the stark reality but if it is, I just fear that if nothing can be done then growing the market as a way of reducing costs becomes a mountain to climb that may prove too much.
Of course there will always be those who will always choose to shoot film and I will probably be one of them but if a "niche" product becomes niche enough and this affects costs even more adversely then there comes a point at which even the likes of consumers such as we have on Photrio are not enough to sustain the industry
Film's future may not be anything like as bright as we want to believe it is
pentaxuser
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