The end of film cameras

[Chirs Gregory]

LCDs have a life span. I wonder if ccd, cmos etc. can just suddenly stop working because of their age, or develop thousands of dead pixels. I read somewhere about a digital SLR with a fixed semi-silvered mirror. Canon did that in 35mm with the Pellix and pretty much all of those are unusable because the mirrors aged and the coatings went bad. Parts for digital cameras are very expensive, available for a narrow time window AND in many cases, replacing some parts requires proprietary software from the manufacturer (which many won't make available) to set the camera up. John

I know from personal experience that LCD screens really just sort of crap out. You might have a year or so of limited or random functionality, but after a while they just stop working completely. I'd imagine it's the same with any of the other technologies that make up a digital camera. You'd also have to worry about connectivity many years down the line. My current desktop can't connect (easily) to my first digital camera because the thing was designed to use an Apple serial port. My second one likewise has trouble with my desktop because it writes to floppy disks, and... well, we know how that went.

Film cameras? A friend of mine asked me to fix up his 1903 Kodak "Pocket" camera, and after cleaning some of the optics, I slapped some Ilford MG in there and out came a lovely, contrast-laden image. They stopped making the film back in 1972, but I could have just as easily stuck a sheet of foamboard in there as a mask and used 120 for a faster shot. And the guy who uploaded some pictures of his film coater to Flickr proves, even old film stocks might come back if you find a guy with one of those who might be willing to make you a special 620-format batch or something.

As far as repair is concerned, optics is optics and mechanicals is mechanicals. Somebody with limited training in both can, after reading up about what to do, pop a camera open and do much less harm than good. The weak point would be microprocessors and other fiddly electronic bits, since those are a bit more difficult to diagnose than "Oh, that thing is bent so that other thing won't move."

 

[jglass]

I don't know if anyone has said this, but, technically, it is much easier to make a good mechanical camera than a good color film. Color film is the weakest link, I think...

 

[Paul Howell]

I think film is safe for the next decade, as noted by others there are still a few cameras being made and there a supply of high quailty used cameras. Perhaps even demand for a new line of cameras as the used market shriks. I think the first to go will be color, both Kodak and Fuji have very large scale plants that need to make very large runs. As production moves from film to digital for movies and theaters covert to digital it will not be cost effective to make color film. Kodak and Fuji use the same plants to make B&W we may be left with Ilford and the other the smaller folks left. I dont know if Ferrina and Lucky still makeing color film.

 

[CGW]

I know from personal experience that LCD screens really just sort of crap out. You might have a year or so of limited or random functionality, but after a while they just stop working completely. I'd imagine it's the same with any of the other technologies that make up a digital camera. You'd also have to worry about connectivity many years down the line. My current desktop can't connect (easily) to my first digital camera because the thing was designed to use an Apple serial port. My second one likewise has trouble with my desktop because it writes to floppy disks, and... well, we know how that went.

Film cameras? A friend of mine asked me to fix up his 1903 Kodak "Pocket" camera, and after cleaning some of the optics, I slapped some Ilford MG in there and out came a lovely, contrast-laden image. They stopped making the film back in 1972, but I could have just as easily stuck a sheet of foamboard in there as a mask and used 120 for a faster shot. And the guy who uploaded some pictures of his film coater to Flickr proves, even old film stocks might come back if you find a guy with one of those who might be willing to make you a special 620-format batch or something.

As far as repair is concerned, optics is optics and mechanicals is mechanicals. Somebody with limited training in both can, after reading up about what to do, pop a camera open and do much less harm than good. The weak point would be microprocessors and other fiddly electronic bits, since those are a bit more difficult to diagnose than "Oh, that thing is bent so that other thing won't move."

Wishful thinking at its finest re: film camera repair. There's a 60s Bronica S holding down the trash bag at my curb this a.m. The shutter/film advance gear train is jammed. I paid $40 bucks for it 7-8 years ago, happily ran 40-60 rolls through it, and shelved it when it broke, replacing it with a new SQ-B. Repair+shipping would have easily run triple that, leaving me with a working LBJ era camera I had no emotional connection with. The DIY/survivalist urge is a bit misguided when it comes to a mass-produced item, especially an exceedingly complex one like a film SLR. My Minolta X700 suffered the capacitor crap-out that cripples so many of these. Solution? Trashed it. Not worth the bother of fixing it.

The market for film cameras is eBay. Swap meets in my area are full of delusional sellers passing of semi-functioning junk or antiques destined for display shelves. Neither of these demonstrate a market with enough upside to warrant a production revival of anything truly affordable. 1980 isn't coming back.

DIY film coating is a borderline fantasy outside glass plates and is not something I dream fondly of at night.

My take is that the future of film cameras will probably resemble the streets of Fidel's Havana, where Eisenhower-era cars clunk along in varying states of decomposition. How can it really be otherwise?

 

[Photo Engineer]

DIY film coating is a borderline fantasy outside glass plates and is not something I dream fondly of at night.

Actually, coating LF film (4x5, 8x10 & etc...) is as easy or easier than coating glass plates.

The future, if film vanishes or film cameras vanish, is with LF and home made film or plates. Besides, good LF cameras are easy to build.

There is some room for MF cameras as well. I have made film coatings for these down to 2x3.

PE

 

[2F/2F]

My take is that the future of film cameras will probably resemble the streets of Fidel's Havana, where Eisenhower-era cars clunk along in varying states of decomposition. How can it really be otherwise?

Good post.

Interesting to note after your analogy that I copied is that many of those cars in Cuba have been kept running with non-U.S. parts (largely Soviet). So they are hybrid mishmoshes by now.

 

[Ralph Javins]

The Vivitar Name

It should be pointed out that Vivitar makes both a low-end Nikon F100 and a K-mount 135 model, both affordable. They have stepped up to fill a void. How long that will last is anyone's guess.

Good morning, Aristophanes;

A minor point of discussion:

Even though Sakar International has purchased the Vivitar name, I believe that they are still following the original philosophy of Ponder and Best: They are a marketing organization; not a manufacturer. Ponder and Best would publish a specification, and different manufacturers would bid on how much they would charge to make a product to meet that specification. This ranged from lenses to cameras to electronic flash units and others. Yes, this did result in some variation in quality among the manufactured products with what appears to be the same characteristics. The Vivitar 70-210mm zoom lens is an outstanding example of this unfortunate circumstance. Those by Kino Precision (KIRON), Komine, and Tokina were done very well, but those by Cosina and Kobori were less stellar performers.

At this time, I belive that the cameras you mentioned are being made in China by Chinon. My old Vivitar 450/SLD was made in Japan by Cosina.

Vivitar did sell some very nice equipment, but they did not build it.

 

[David Brown]

So, in 20 years time when I drop my F80 and it breaks, will I look on ebay to find there are none left to buy, ... ?

No.

 

[holmburgers]

Good post.

Interesting to note after your analogy that I copied is that many of those cars in Cuba have been kept running with non-U.S. parts (largely Soviet). So they are hybrid mishmoshes by now.

Mad Max, Waterworld anyone?

We'll be ok...

 

[blockend]

A few weeks ago I spoke to someone who'd worked for Kodak for many years. I gave him the party line about film being here to stay and could see he was humouring me. His opinion was unequivocally that it's in its death throes. Take that how you will.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

As long as there's the use of film, they'll be film cameras. Some could always put a piece of film in a black box with a small hole as a lens. But as for manufacturing of film cameras, they'll be made as long as there's a demand for new cameras. From the looks on Ebay, there's a glut of used ones so I would hazard a guess that not many new ones are sold these days.

 

[CGW]

Mad Max, Waterworld anyone?

We'll be ok...

Yeah, right. Hopefully you'll be able to pull it off with the same dignity as owners of restored Model As do but I somehow doubt it.

If anything, there will custom camera makers charging sinful amounts for view cameras. If Bob Kramer can do it kitchen knives, why not cameras? <<loud laughing>>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OCoS81G2CY

 

[Ralph Javins]

Wishful thinking at its finest re: film camera repair.
. . .

The DIY/survivalist urge is a bit misguided when it comes to a mass-produced item, especially an exceedingly complex one like a film SLR. My Minolta X700 suffered the capacitor crap-out that cripples so many of these. Solution? Trashed it. Not worth the bother of fixing it.

. . .

Good morning, CGW;

The Minolta X-700: What an un-necessary loss.

Three small screws and perhaps 10 minutes work (if the soldering iron is already out on the bench) to fit a commonly available replacement spare part, and your X-700 would have been back in normal operation as part of one of the most capable film camera systems ever produced, the Minolta X-700 MPS System.

At the very least, just removing the screws and similar things would have helped with keeping other photography equipment that you have in operation. There should be a small screwdriver set (perhaps like one for eyeglasses) around anyway, just for tightening the screws that seem to "just loosen" over time.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I have and use 35mm, 120, and 4"x5" formats. I will replace camera bodies and lens as necessary as long as they are available.​

Plan A:​

If film gets too hard to find:

Actually, coating LF film (4x5, 8x10 & etc...) is as easy or easier than coating glass plates.

The future, if film vanishes or film cameras vanish, is with LF and home made film or plates. Besides, good LF cameras are easy to build.

There is some room for MF cameras as well. I have made film coatings for these down to 2x3.

PE

Plan B:​

I will migrate the 35mm lenses to full framed digital bodies.​

I will buy digital bodies for the Hasselblads and 4"x5" cameras.​

Plan C:​

Neither film nor film cameras disappear and it is time for me to cash in my chips, then I will not care because I can't take them with me.​

Steve​

 

[CGW]

Good post.

Interesting to note after your analogy that I copied is that many of those cars in Cuba have been kept running with non-U.S. parts (largely Soviet). So they are hybrid mishmoshes by now.

Trust me, those '55 Ford/Lada hybrids are truly scary.

 

[CGW]

It's a baked-in defect Minolta never addressed. It was a dirt-cheap 2nd hand camera, not a Tiffany lamp. I'll get another one sometime but won't pay much for it. It would have taken a bit more than a screwdriver set to fix the dead Bronica whose innards aren't exactly straightforward.

 

[spacer]

Once enough of the good, functional film cameras have found a permanent home with folks who wouldn't give 'em up for love nor money, I can see the "toy" camera outfits offering graded-up models to the general public, for folks who despair of finding good quality cameras out there. I've known a lomographer or two here in AR who ended up buying a "real" camera or two as their abilities increased and they wanted to actually take more WYSIWIG type shots. One even muttered that he was going to see if he could tinker with one of his Holgas to see if he could get some sharper pics out of it.

The dramatic migration to digital was relatively recent, and while maybe most folks will stick with it, others (like myself) will one day be faced with periodically moving their entire collection to another medium and say "screw it, I'm using film for this stuff".

I have a digital SLR that I like, and it's handy for the social networking outlets, but I've become jaded about being able to reliably archive my photos without having to face the occasional major project every few years as technology changes. Hopefully, there will be enough of us, as well as the already committed fine art photographers, to keep a small-but-healthy niche market going.

 

[CGW]

I have a digital SLR that I like, and it's handy for the social networking outlets, but I've become jaded about being able to reliably archive my photos without having to face the occasional major project every few years as technology changes. Hopefully, there will be enough of us, as well as the already committed fine art photographers, to keep a small-but-healthy niche market going.[/QUOTE]


That's really where we're at now and I truly hope that's the winning number for the future. Sadly, I see too many film shooter friends who are more into collecting, discussing and fondling cameras than actually shooting them on a regular basis.

 

[2F/2F]

"Small but healthy niche market" means we all will need better jobs in order to continue the hobby. Right now, I feel blessed to have any full time job, and extraordinarily lucky to have two part timers on top of it. It is the only way I can afford photography in today's market! But if film photography becomes much more of a niche hobby than it already is, I am really going to need to upgrade my employment!

 

[Aristophanes]

Mad Max, Waterworld anyone?

We'll be ok...

Those were analog worlds. We are confronting an all-digital world.

We'll be 10010111001000011011100

Correction: Cosina make the Nikon FM10 and Vivitar makes the k-mount V3800N.

 

[MetaGeorge]

zzzzzzzz

 

[film_man]

I've got an insurance against old electronic film bodies dying: I bought a Hasselblad and I'm saving for a Leica MP. All mechanical so somebody, somewhere, should be able to fix them. Should get me through the next 50 years. After that I'll just be thankful I'm still alive.

 

[Athiril]

What? There are still film cameras in production iirc.

Even those newer bodies made for digital MF backs can take film backs.. like that weird Hartblei medium format camera with Canon EF mount could take a film back if you really wanted it to.

 

[c6h6o3]

All mechanical so somebody, somewhere, should be able to fix them. Should get me through the next 50 years. After that I'll just be thankful I'm still alive.

The problem will not be finding the expertise, but will be finding the parts. I know that Hasselblad has long ago stopped manufacturing parts for my older lenses and when the inventory runs out, that's it. Although I have a relatively late model Hasselblad body (503cxi) I'm sure they'll follow suit viz a vis the cameras sooner or later.

 

[holmburgers]

Well by the time all the parts are gone, 3D printers will be of a quality that we can just make the parts by ourself on our desktops.

http://www.makerbot.com/blog/tag/3d-printer/