The end for Kodak?

[keithwms]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...rlds-highest/2011/12/30/gIQAw0A5QP_story.html

Ron's numbers are for 2009. Vacuum tubes have slipped to #4 now, alas That fuel is now #1 was a big story last week.

2011 (Through October)
1 — Fuel: $73.4 billion;
2 — Aircraft: $70.8 billion;
3 — Motor Vehicles: $39.6 billion;
4 — Vacuum Tubes: $37.1 billion;
5 — Telecommunications Equipment: $33.2 billion.

 

[ic-racer]

In a recent list of big sellers in goods made here in the US, the top item is military aircraft and the second is vacuum tubes. Yes, the old analog standard, vacuum tubes.

Major vacuum tube production stopped in the US in the mid 1980s. There is some hoax article floating around the internet indicating USA exports vacuum tubes. Current the majority of worldwide audio vacuum tube production is in Russa and China.

2005 USA vacuum tube production summary:

Richardson Electronics, LaFox, IL

Makes a 300B, 845 and 50 sold under the Cetron brand for high-end audio, as well as a KT88 sold under the National brand. Richardson has large quantities of tooling obtained from old American tube factories when they shut down. Also makes some larger transmitting and high-voltage types. Richardson markets many tubes, obtained from other factories worldwide, under their own brandnames; such as Cetron, National and Amperex.

Westrex Corporation, Kansas City, MO

Makes the reissued Western Electric 300B for high-end audio. Claims to be developing a KT88, WE308, WE274A and other old WE types for future manufacture. Corporate and sales offices are located in Atlanta and Chattanooga. Also has sales office in UK. Tube manufacturing facility was relocated from Kansas City to Huntsville, AL. This firm is independent of AT&T Corporation and has licensed the brandnames from AT&T.

MU, Oceanside, CA

Small contract factory, makes occasional runs of unusual glass and metal-ceramic tubes for military use. Still makes some of the old "Bendix Red Bank" tubes, such as the 6094 and 6384, in occasional lots.

Triton Services ETD, Gaithersburg, MD

Makes some Eimac and Litton glass power types, using equipment from the original manufacturers. Recently discontinued some glass types, such as 4-65A, 4-125A, 250TH, 304TH/TL, etc. (these types are now only available from China).
source -- http://www.vacuumtube.com/mfg.htm

 

[Photo Engineer]

Not AFAIK and not according to that list.

Keith has the list posted above. It was a yahoo news item 2 or 3 days ago. It is GWTW now I guess.

PE

 

[Jon King]

I find this interesting too. I was involved in high power microwave tube production in the early 90's. It was then a very viable market and may still be today. I'd be surprised if it made #4 for exports though.

Major vacuum tube production stopped in the US in the mid 1980s. There is some hoax article floating around the internet indicating USA exports vacuum tubes. Current the majority of worldwide audio vacuum tube production is in Russa and China.

2005 USA vacuum tube production summary:

Richardson Electronics, LaFox, IL

Makes a 300B, 845 and 50 sold under the Cetron brand for high-end audio, as well as a KT88 sold under the National brand. Richardson has large quantities of tooling obtained from old American tube factories when they shut down. Also makes some larger transmitting and high-voltage types. Richardson markets many tubes, obtained from other factories worldwide, under their own brandnames; such as Cetron, National and Amperex.

Westrex Corporation, Kansas City, MO

Makes the reissued Western Electric 300B for high-end audio. Claims to be developing a KT88, WE308, WE274A and other old WE types for future manufacture. Corporate and sales offices are located in Atlanta and Chattanooga. Also has sales office in UK. Tube manufacturing facility was relocated from Kansas City to Huntsville, AL. This firm is independent of AT&T Corporation and has licensed the brandnames from AT&T.

MU, Oceanside, CA

Small contract factory, makes occasional runs of unusual glass and metal-ceramic tubes for military use. Still makes some of the old "Bendix Red Bank" tubes, such as the 6094 and 6384, in occasional lots.

Triton Services ETD, Gaithersburg, MD

Makes some Eimac and Litton glass power types, using equipment from the original manufacturers. Recently discontinued some glass types, such as 4-65A, 4-125A, 250TH, 304TH/TL, etc. (these types are now only available from China).
source -- http://www.vacuumtube.com/mfg.htm

 

[Neanderman]

At the rate we are going, and with our current education system, we will be a 3rd world nation in a generation!

Sorry for the rant.

If you lived in Eastern Kentucky, you might think we're already a 3rd world country. And despite our generally excellent medical system, we still have a higher rate of infant mortality than some of the "real" 3rd world countries.

Rant away, PE. You've earned it.

Ed

 

[alanrockwood]

... you might think we're already a 3rd world country. ... we still have a higher rate of infant mortality than some of the "real" 3rd world countries...

Ed

Speaking of infant mortality, the CIA World Fact Book has ratings for different countries, and believe me, the US record is nothing to be proud of. The US ranks number 46 among the nations with a rate of 6.26 deaths per 1000 live births. We rank right between Guam and Faroe Islands. The better countries have infant mortality rates well under half of ours.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

(one service is actually our superb medical system if you don't mind paying for it)

A year and a half ago my wife took a simple fall and broke her elbow. The aggregate final bill cruised comfortably past $100,000.

I'm still trying to make sense of that...

Ken

[Edit: Damn! My 1,000th post and it wasn't even on-topic...]

:eek:

 

[hoffy]

A year and a half ago my wife took a simple fall and broke her elbow. The aggregate final bill cruised comfortably past $100,000.

I'm still trying to make sense of that...

Ken

[Edit: Damn! My 1,000th post and it wasn't even on-topic...]

:eek:

And yet, many people in the US sneer at countries like Australia that have state run health systems.....

Anyhow, isn't this drifting pretty quick off topic?

 

[railwayman3]

And yet, many people in the US sneer at countries like Australia that have state run health systems.....

Anyhow, isn't this drifting pretty quick off topic?

At risk of adding to the off-topicality, here in the UK we have the state-funded NHS system. Very good in many respects, but abysmally bad in other ways (arguably, mainly, the care and human aspects, rather than the actual medical treatments).
Private medicine and expensive insurance schemes thrive for those who want non-urgent treatment sooner or at a particular time to suit their work or circumstances.

The big problem (IMHO) is that most people don't value anything which they get "for free"...they usually demand it as "their rights", and would never consider contributing anything even if they could well afford it.

 

[eclarke]

What we need is a President fully experienced in taking operating profitable companies and stripping them of their assets and putting all the workers on unemployment. I think one is running for the office now...

Vaughn

We need to quit electing people whose background is professional government aka "qualified". If a building needs to be built and you ask these people what they should do first, they will form a committee and do a study. If you ask somebody from the real world what to do first, they will say dig footings....

 

[Steve Smith]

A year and a half ago my wife took a simple fall and broke her elbow. The aggregate final bill cruised comfortably past $100,000.

I'm still trying to make sense of that...

There is no sense to it. I don't see how it could possibly cost even 1/10 of that.

Our NHS might not be perfect but I wouldn't want to be without it.


Steve.

 

[thomas l]

Interesting discussion. To the health system of UK I have to say that it is not very good compared to better working health systems in the European Union.

From my Austrian perspective is interesting that the private styled US health system is more expensive than our semi state run health system but does not at the same time provide sufficent health care for everyone. For us it is normal that everybody has the possibility of getting state of the art health care for free and that everybody has to pay money to the public health insurances. That doesn't mean we are living in a paradise, but generally this is fair. And so for us it seems quite strange, when we are listening to the news and listen the Republicans in the US, that they are afraid of the USA becoming a socialist country just because of Obama's health reform. They do not know much about socialism I think....

 

[SilverGlow]

Interesting discussion. To the health system of UK I have to say that it is not very good compared to better working health systems in the European Union.

From my Austrian perspective is interesting that the private styled US health system is more expensive than our semi state run health system but does not at the same time provide sufficent health care for everyone. For us it is normal that everybody has the possibility of getting state of the art health care for free and that everybody has to pay money to the public health insurances. That doesn't mean we are living in a paradise, but generally this is fair. And so for us it seems quite strange, when we are listening to the news and listen the Republicans in the US, that they are afraid of the USA becoming a socialist country just because of Obama's health reform. They do not know much about socialism I think....

Oh we Americans know too much about socialism. We see every single european country (including Germany and Austria) in fiscal trouble. It's sad that you socialists are running out of someone else's money, and all your countries are going the way of Greece, Spain, Ireland, Portugal, and even England, where they too are in financial straits. Yes. They. Are. And the way of socialism causes the populations to forget self-initiative, and develop an entitlement mentality...thus the nanny state...they have all been trained to EXPECT the government to step in and "solve their problems"...immoral, to be sure, to be sure, to be sure.

Still, our system over here in the USA is bad, terrible. In short it is because doctors are greedy bastards, and so are the drug makers. Everyone in the medical field are greedy and demand massive pay, and little compasion.

 

[Aristophanes]

Oh we Americans know too much about socialism. We see every single european country (including Germany and Austria) in fiscal trouble. It's sad that you socialists are running out of someone else's money, and all your countries are going the way of Greece, Spain, Ireland, Portugal, and even England, where they too are in financial straits. Yes. They. Are. And the way of socialism causes the populations to forget self-initiative, and develop an entitlement mentality...thus the nanny state...they have all been trained to EXPECT the government to step in and "solve their problems"...immoral, to be sure, to be sure, to be sure.

Still, our system over here in the USA is bad, terrible. In short it is because doctors are greedy bastards, and so are the drug makers. Everyone in the medical field are greedy and demand massive pay, and little compasion.

The US debt is much worse than socialist Germany...or Canada.

Interesting that capitalist doctors and drug makers charging what they do is an ethical and not an economic problem. If you do not like their services, in a fee market, choose another way. Because we don't want the nanny state government to impede on market choices, right?

 

[Jesper]

I came here to see if there was anything new about Kodak, but didn't find very much except some flaming about health care.
Hasn't this thread gone just a little off topic?

 

[SilverGlow]

I came here to see if there was anything new about Kodak, but didn't find very much except some flaming about health care.
Hasn't this thread gone just a little off topic?

We were just thinking that maybe Kodak should get into the drug making business....they've dealt with chemicals their entire existence so making a new ED drug (for example) might be a good way to save the company. So, yea, this talk of medical is all tied in....sort of...

 

[lxdude]

With a new ED drug Kodak could rise again!

 

[Steve Smith]

Interesting discussion. To the health system of UK I have to say that it is not very good compared to better working health systems in the European Union.

That's true and we particularly have a problem with waiting lists. However, I would much rather have our system as it is than not have it at all.


Steve.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

More on Kodak's pension obligations issues, particularly UK and overseas:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Kodak-Future-Troubled-Waters-zacks-1435186693.html?x=0

 

[Photo Engineer]

Thanks Ed.

I lived on the Monongahela and spent many hours in the city at the headwaters of the Ohio! That's Pittsburgh for those who don't know geography. But, a few miles from Pittsburgh, it probably resembles rural KY.

PE

 

[BrianShaw]

But, a few miles from Pittsburgh, it probably resembles rural KY.

After spending several years working in and about Harlan County KY and the "Tri-states" area... there isn't a part of the country that I've seen resembling Eastern KY. Other parts are rural, and other parts are poor... but Eastern KY is beyond sad. But they are proud and generally good people.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Think what they could do with a better education and some good jobs!

PE

 

[Neanderman]

We have veered a little off topic here and I bear some of the responsibility. But it is hard to talk about business (at least in the US) without veering into politics, regardless of your personal philosophy. The two are deeply intertwined.

That said, back to the subject at hand.

It's very hard to know what is going on inside Kodak if you're not there (and in the upper echelon...) To their credit, they DID modernize (and rationalize) their film manufacturing back in 2007, or so. They built a brand new coating facility which is, no doubt, the most advanced in the world. But did they miscalculate and make it too big? If they'd made it a bit smaller, could they have avoided some of the discontinuances? Did they pull the plug on some products too quickly? It's hard to say because we don't have all of the data.

One of the problems with extremely large enterprises (like Kodak WAS 5-10 years ago...) is that their scale demands they only compete in markets that have HUGE gross earnings and make HUGE profits. In some other posts I've mentioned P&G. Over the past 5-10 years, they too have shrunk. They've sold off all or most of their manufacturing and they've sold or discontinued any brand that didn't bring in one billion dollars a year (thousand million, for those outside the US). Since the downturn in 2007, they've now found that people are cutting back -- instead of buying the "top priced" brands, they are buying less expensive ones, which P&G no longer competes against.

One thing I will say about P&G is that they promote from within. They hire right out of college and immerse you in the culture. Every CEO they've ever had started out at the bottom. I don't know if Kodak used to do that or not, but they don't anymore and maybe that's part of their problem. Perez knew NOTHING about the photography business -- what he knew was selling printers. So is it any wonder that Kodak has now decided it wants to be "a printer company?" How they expect to compete with Perez's former employer, HP, or with Epson or Canon or any of the other companies that make very good printers is beyond me. But I don't think we should be shocked or surprised that he doesn't want to sell film anymore.

Ed

 

[Photo Engineer]

Ed, I too bear the responsibility for the veer off target of the thread.

Here then are my takes on your post..

The new coating facility was built in the 90s in response to the huge demand for film world-wide. It was completed well before I left EK in '97. It was overkill for the resultant decline in about 2005. It is now running well under capacity.

Think of this. Kodak had about 9 coating facilities WW, and some of them had multiple coating machines. Paper Mfg for example, had 6 machines in one building at Kodak Park. They all ran 24/7/365. Today, they have one machine that runs part time! That is because it has too much capacity. But, it is used for quality purposes. It produces the best quality.

The Research Labs themselves had about 9 coating machines and half of those could do slide coatings and 2 of them curtain coatings. One coated at 11" and could do production. The plant had 2 machines that did narrow width pilot coatings.

I could go on, but today they have none of these.

As for promoting from within, there is something to be said both pro and con about this. Pro is that the person knows the company and the business as well as the science behind it. The con is that the person may be too Kodak centric and narrow. We have seen both at EK, but Perez knew nothing about EK and nothing about film. He was blind to both the culture and the methodology, and even the potential market which we all know is there.

Today, Perez is using the film profits for funding digital when he could divert some funds to advertizing and sales and distribution of film which would increase profits to split with digital. But, the reorganization recently announce has one possible side effect. Combining some film and digital divisions allows easier transfer of film profits to digital needs!

In any event, did hiring from outside help? No. Did promoting from within help? Only sometimes. Political decisions sent Kodak off on a tangent back in the 80s that they never recovered from. For example, when Eilers became CEO, Gable retired along with some of the best people. Gable, IMHO, was the better choice. When Carp won out over Kohrt, it was similar. IMHO Kohrt would have been the better choice. Many agree with me and many disagree so you see the politics that were involved even in the opinions of the lower ranks.

Fischer looked outside the box. That can be said for him. But, like Perez, he knew nothing about film and from what I have heard, he could be dictatorial in his decisions, right or wrong.

PE

 

[Aristophanes]

With all due respect PE, there are no "film profits" at EK. That division has lost money every Q for almost a decade now. When the losses narrow, it is because of asset sales, which are then patriated to the mothership to fund areas of potential growth. That growth is not in analog for the same reason there are almost no film cameras still in manufacture on an industrial scale. The legacy costs of film manufacturing are still evident in the pensions (deferred earnings).

No matter how one measures it, the balance sheets show continuous declining revenues with liabilities still exceeding assets. Even if all non vested pension/medical obligations are wiped by Ch. 11, EK film still bleeds red ink. It's hard to operate and amortize a major industrial system part-time.